Global Warming...

Discussion in 'Computers and Stuff' started by Cass, Dec 19, 2009.

  1. Scuba_Dave

    Scuba_Dave Extreme DIY Homeowner

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    So based on the chart there was another civilized Human race over 100,000 years ago that caused global warming that killed them off ;)

    The chart, if correct, does show that we have had the largest spike in CO2
    Caused by the human race
  2. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    I think most of us have no trouble paying taxes if the govn would have some common sense in doing so. I am happy at working and struggling, I wish it weren't for daily essentals though. And, when the govn taxes someone comparatively the same way the govn taxes the people born with money or ( is wealthy), which makes more money and lives a life of ease then it becomes unfair.

    As much as the people with mega bucks don't like to hear this they need to be taxed accordingly to the ratio where it equals mine. They need to feel the brunt of it like I do. Or most commoners. But they don't. The rich so to speak, just complains because it becomes less money to make money from while the little people loses the money to pay bills, buy food, and to live day by day.

    So in answer to your question there it is. You and all others can disagree but that is my viewpoint. Tax the people with money more than enough money, til it hurts like it does most American everyday citizens, make it fair to us.

    Tax them until, they squeal. Tax them until it hurts, until, they come down a rung or 6. Here is a novel idea tax them until, they are one of us. They should be absorbing most of the bill to which taxes do their work.

    Let the rest of us who live day by day be able to breathe once a while. I have no problem paying taxes to help those who need it but I do not want to support the wealthy.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2009
  3. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

    No, of course not. I don't think you'll find any scientists claiming it, either. That's just not how science works.
  4. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

    Howzzat?

    Yup.
  5. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    Then there is no way any Scientist can know if, how, and to what degree CO2 affects climate....Thats exactly how Science works...You have to know how every thing works in Concert and only then can you determine the degree, if there even is one, to which adding CO2 to what is already there affects climate...
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2009


  6. It's been pretty rough here at the Dunbar household.


    Brought in air blowers and oxygen tanks to get through the next 36 hours, hoping it will end.

    Even my dog is having a go at it. I fed him too much turkey and forgot how he can crank em out when he's working on the cleanout phase. :p
  7. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    My cats can do a wonderful job at it also...


    the EPA just left here...they were investigating an Air Quality Complaint...

    and the Global Warming Protestors are starting to show up now....
  8. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

    No, that's NOT how science works!

    "I don't know everything" is not the same thing as "I don't know anything". You don't have to wait until you understand everything, to say something about the parts you do understand.


    Newtonian physics, for example, is incomplete. It can't explain Mercury's orbit. It can't explain the way light bends when passing a large object. It can't explain a whole lot of other things... but it's accurate enough for designing & making internal combustion engines, bridges, trains, automobiles, roads, highrise buildings, and so on.


    Another example: is light a particle, or a wave? Do we have to wait until we know for sure which it is, before making light bulbs & lasers & cameras & light sensors & so on? Of course not.


    People have been breeding animals & plants for millenia - without understanding exactly how genes work, or even knowing there was such a things as DNA.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2009
  9. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Are we talking Arkansaw steamers here? lol.
  10. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

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    Prolly more like a Chihuahua Skidder.... :eek:
  11. kpierce

    kpierce New Member

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    While I’m unqualified to contribute any worthwhile plumbing opinions or, for that matter, any worthwhile information about global warming, I feel a need to respond to this question.

    No, I really don’t like paying taxes and I can’t understand why anyone would.

    Thank you all for the lively discussion.
  12. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    Your right...but you are compairing things we have a lot of knowlege about to something that we are just in our infancy as far as learning...so tell me, in regards to the climate...that you admit we know very little about...in fact don't even know exactly how or what causes the normal fluctuations over thousands of years...
    how we know anything we do will work and how we can measure the response to what ever it is that we do...and determine that the response is from what we did and not a normal reaction that was going to happen regardless...

    If we can't do that then we have no business spending $$$ doing anything...we need to wait till we have more knowlege...

    What large steps in understanding global weather / climate effects have we made in the past 50-100 years

    Like said before the temp is rising on other planets at about the same rate it is here...how do we know what ever is causing that is causing it here also...we just don't know enough...

    BTW...Yes that is how Science works...thats why things scientists hold true sometimes change making them wrong in the past...not enough info...and thats why there are enough scientists now who will say we don't have enough knowlege about the climate to do anything at this time...
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2009
  13. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

    This is what I meant, about trying to get your science from political blogs.

    Only a half-dozen of the planets & moons seem to be warming - not all, or even most. And the causes are, in fact, pretty well understood for each of those cases.

    Start with the most blatant example: Neptune, is simply closer to the sun than it was 30 years ago. (FYI, orbits are elliptical, not round; and Neptune takes 164 years to go 'round once).

    Triton, is in the midst of it's southern-hemisphere summer, which puts the darkest part of the planet inline with the sun, you're familiar with the concept of albedo, right?

    Mars had a huge dust-storm in 2007, it's normal & expected that it warms up then.

    Jupiter, isn't warming overall, near as we can tell, it's warming near its equator while cooling at its poles.

    Pluto, is the only real head-scratcher - it's currently moving farther away from the sun (on its normal elliptical orbit), yet it seems to have warmed a few degrees, in the 14 years since we last checked. Nobody really knows why. But then I'm not sure what the confidence interval is on those measurements, in the first place. (Pluto is FAR, too far for the Hubble even to see its face, so we don't actually know much about it.)

    There's another huge weakness in that line of argument - which BTW I've yet to see any serious scientist espouse - we do have very accurate measurements on solar activity. To the extent that solar activity drives climate (and it does, for earth they figure it's about 0.5 to 1.5%), the drivers have all been going the other way for the last 20 years. If it was solar activity, we'd be cooling by now; and we're not.
  14. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    And we still don't know enough about the planet we live on as far as climate goes....man has for thousands of years wanted to control the weather...and it seems that we still do...

    All this political desire to "do something about global warming" has nothing to do with the climate...just follow the money...it is about control, power, and wealth...nothing more.

    Infact most of the scientists who are "sounding the alarm" stand to lose millions and millions of $$$ in grant money if they couldn't show it was happening...

    I haven't heard your answer to....

    how will we know anything we do will work and how we can measure the response to what ever it is that we do...and determine that the response is from what we did and not a normal reaction that was going to happen regardless...
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
  15. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    It's nothing at all to do with that.

    It is a little bit about blaming the Americans though.

    That's always fun.
  16. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    If you truly think it has nothing to do with control, power, and wealth...

    then you know less about the history of American politics than I originally thought...and you truly are ignorant about such matters...

    On the other hand your remark may just be to get a rise from someone....it is hard to tell which...your camouflage is good...
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  17. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    Everything has to do with that which is why nothing is being done about global warming Cass.

    Wealthy Americans who like their cars too much do not want to pay more for their gas.

    Large corporations can only buy so many political favors with their campaign contributions. If the public is up in arms, voters always win.

    And $4/gallon gas would have most Conservatives up in arms.

    Poor Conservative "victims" who think they "deserve" the right to drive to work.

    Buy a diesel. Or better yet, take the bus.

    Your "freedom" is damaging my planet. So get over it.

    Besides, some nice energy taxes would be a good way of paying for your desperately needed healthcare reforms while narrowing the budget deficit.

    Which would mean less environmental problems for your kids to sort out and less debt too.

    It's all about America's children. You just gotta love 'em.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  18. Scuba_Dave

    Scuba_Dave Extreme DIY Homeowner

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    MA, like CA adopted strict emissions standards (2004), which diesel passenger vehicles fail
    So they are not sold (or were not) as new cars here
    So only used for sale....dunno why used older models are OK ??

    I'm not wealthy......and I do Not want to pay more for gas
    How about you pay $1-2 more per gallon to make you feel better & I get that as a discount on what I buy ?
  19. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    Poor people should buy smaller cars if they cannot afford to drive big ones.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  20. Scuba_Dave

    Scuba_Dave Extreme DIY Homeowner

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    South of Boston, MA
    Poor people can't afford to buy cars
    That's crazy !!
    The American Govt should step in & give them cars

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