Gerber Avalanche toilet product review

[Redwood]

Terry, do you think it misleading that you claim Geber defects to be around 55% and Toto around 0-1%? Until your survey field is even 100 Gerbers to 100 Totos....etc, I do not think your claim is accurate.

What if I bought a single Toto toilet and it was defective? Would it be fair of me to claim Toto as 100% defective?

Shawn, As plumbers we see a lot of toilets...

While I haven't seen many Avalanches I have worked on and installed many Gerber Toilets over the years... The thing is that we end up with favorites (ones that work well with few problems) and ones that we hate ( ones that don't work and give us headaches) Gerber, Eljer, Kohler, Am. Std. have all given me problems in the past with things like propietary parts, zinc wing nuts, zinc plated steel tank to bowl screws, poor design, & defects...

Toto on the other hand has been my toilet of choice when I pick one for the customer for 5 years and I have yet to open a box and find a defect or, have a calback on one I installed...

Based even on the limited results I see I would hesitate to choose one for a plumber supplied installation...

We make a living installing toilets for customers. When I have to do the job twice, or, worse go back a second trip it costs me. It costs me in 2 ways. The cost of doing the job twice, and the cost of not being out there doing some other job the first time...

Too many of these calls and you will be out of business on costs alone. Nevermind the unsatisfied ex-customers and the word they put out...

It's funny... But I think Toto customers are really sick in the head...
They start doing things like showing other people their toilet...
"Wanna see my Toto toilet flush..."
What's really funny is when that person decides they want one...
It's like an infectious desease...
They start calling you!

Yea I admit it! We are biased...
No matter how good a product these companies come out with...
We are skeptic based on our past experiences...

 

[Terry]

do not think your claim is accurate?

spetrucco,
Here is what you posted about the Avalanche

I open the box and there is a 1-inch area of glaze missing in the bowl! (sounds like a Cadet3 trick)!
Take it back to the supply house ..no questions asked and grab another bowl.

That's not even my claim.
Those numbers are from people that have posted their experience here.
You are one of the ones reporting on their problems, or do you not consider it a problem to have to return the bowl for a replacement.
Don't blame my for "their" report.

From "my" experience with the dual flush Gerber by WDI, I'm getting 40% returns.

So what is "your" point?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[spicoli15]

Gerber vs. toto

In the process right now of getting a 3 bedroom addition on my house. Have a 3 bedroom ranch and building up on the house. I need 3 toilets and have researched Consumer Reports and found the following....

Best toilets according to two laymen that test batteries, baby seats, buggy whips and tricycles.
This list was not done by plumbers, nor were any of the products installed in a home and tested there.
There was no long term testing to determine percentage of defects that required a return to the store.
No customer input as to sound levels and whether they could be used in a Master bathroom without waking a spouse.
All toilets were tested with sponges, in a warehouse, by two men using test stands.
There were no small children or wifes involved.
No comments on installation or whether parts would be available, or any class action suites already filed against the product.

1. American Standard Champion 4... $450
2. Kohler Cimarron $350
3. Kohler Highline comfort $500
4. Gerber Avalache 21-817 $300 40% defects
5. Gerber Ultra Flush $400
6. American Standard Cadet $445
7. Gerber Ultra Flush $300
8. American Standard Cadet $400
9 Toto Drake $400 less then 1% returns

1. Top rated Dual Flush Gerber 40% returns

Convince why I should buy a TOTO Terry

Toto Drake
Less then 1% returns
Quality is high, performance is good.
Parts can be found easily.

Gerber Ultraflush has a very small footprint.
Most of the time, this should be installed on a new floor, or you will see the old imprint from the previous bowl.
High return rates since production and ownership has moved to China.
The dual flush version that is rate tops by Consumer Reports is being returned at a 40% in the first year of production.
These are kind of ugly.

American Standard
Quality control is poor.
Many cases of chips and damage at the factory, but they still ship them.
There was a class action suit brought on the first Champion.
The second Champion redesign still uses the poor quality porcelain, and they have changed the flush valve.
Reports of blisters on the redesign.

Bad trapway design on the Cimarron.
It lays flat to the floor, and takes a tight bend where it leaves the bowl.
This is where it plugs
The rinse is poor.
They are attractive, I will give them that.

 

[Redwood]

In the process right now of getting a 3 bedroom addition on my house. Have a 3 bedroom ranch and building up on the house. I need 3 toilets and have researched Consumer Reports and found the following....
Best toilets

Best toilets according to two laymen that test batteries, baby seats, buggy whips and tricycles.
This list was not done by plumbers, nor were any of the products installed in a home and tested there.
There was no long term testing to determine percentage of defects that required a return to the store.
No customer input as to sound levels and whether they could be used in a Master bathroom without waking a spouse.
All toilets were tested with sponges, in a warehouse, by two men using test stands.
There were no small children or wifes involved.
No comments on installation or whether parts would be available, or any class action suites already filed against the product.


1. American Standard Champion 4... $450
2. Kohler Cimaron $350
3. Kohler Highline comfort $500
4. Gerber Avalache 21-817 $300
5. Gerber Ultra Flush $400
6. American Standard Cadet $445
7. Gerber Ultra Flush $300
8. American Standard Cadet $400
9 Toto Drake $400

1. Top rated Dual Flush Gerber

Convince why I should buy a TOTO Terry

Like maybe Consumer Reports is clueless...

Just look at their #1 Choice!
The Am. Std. Champion 4...
A lemon from the git go!
Now on it's 4th redesign and still suckin!
That a look at the Champion Review Thread...

It's a piggy rushed to market before they tested it for sure...
Go ahead by what you want...
I don't care the toilets I have at my house and the ones I install for customers work.
We led you to the fountain of wisdom and you refuse to drink instead opting for a glass of Kook-Aid from Consumer Reports...

 

[Terry]

Convince why I should buy a Toto Terry

Toto Drake
Less then 1% returns
Quality is high, performance is good.
Parts can be found easily.

Gerber Ultraflush has a very small footprint.
Most of the time, this should be installed on a new floor, or you will see the old imprint from the previous bowl.
High return rates since production and ownership has moved to China.
The dual flush version that is rated tops by Consumer Reports is being returned at a 40% in the first year of production.
These are kind of ugly.

American Standard
Quality control is poor.
Many cases of chips and damage at the factory, but they still ship them.
There was a class action suit brought on the first Champion.
The second Champion redesign still uses the poor quality porcelain, and they have changed the flush valve.
Reports of blisters on the redesign.

Bad trapway design on the Cimarron.
It lays flat to the floor, and takes a tight bend where it leaves the bowl.
This is where it plugs
The rinse is poor.
They are attractive, I will give them that.

spicoli15,
It's your home though.
I started off selling mainly Gerber.
But it's very hard to get a second purchase from anyone.
Toto repeat sales are the norm.
I sell maybe 50 of the Gerber a year now,
and 2500 of the Toto.
I've sold a few Kohler, but the insurance claims were pretty expensive.
I got comped on the bowls, but my insurance paid for new floors.
The American Standard experience has been pretty iffy too.
You never know what surprises you will find in the box.
A daycare that I do work for has had the Flapperless, now sold at Home Depot, the A/S Cadet 3 and the Toto Drake.
Even though the Drake is more, that's all they have been buying lately from me.
And this guy is a tough sell. The fact that "he" is going with the Drake says a lot.

TOTO manufactures many of their products in America

 

[spicoli15]

looking into Toto's now and liking the research I have found on them. There seem to be a heck of a lot of different models for the toto drake. Anyone have any models that they like? Two are going into small bathrooms and one is going into a large master bathroom. thanks for the help

 

[Terry]

The Toto drake has four bowls
C743E regular
C744E elongated
C744EG elongated with CEFIONTECT
C744EL ADA elongated with 16-1/2" high bowl

Choice of tanks is
ST743S 1.6 gallons
ST743E 1.28 Gallons WaterSense

But really any of the Toto products with the 3" flush valve is going to be very similar in performance.
I sell a lot of the Drake, Ultramax, Soiree, Guinevere just to name a few.

By the way, the only thing professional about me is my plumber expertise and knowledge accumulated over 35 years.
I don't know a damn thing about batter life, or digital cameras.

Drake 800 grams by Veritech Video

 

[spicoli15]

Any preference when it comes to...

Emax, Gmax, Dual Max, etc for the toto. They seem to have 25 models that are almost identical! How about GPF (1.6?)

What about ADA compliant? that even sure what that means.

Thanks

 

[Terry]

G-Max is the 1.6 gallon flush using the 3" flush valve with the water high enough in the tank to create what Toto considers a "Commercial" flush.
Yeah, it seems to be going into a lot of homes.
Kids are as tough as it gets.

E-Max® is a 1.28-gallon flush based on our legendary, computer-designed G-Max® gravity flushing system. E-Max utilizes simple, efficient engineering to save 20 percent more water than a 1.6 gallon toilet and 63 percent more water than a 3.5 gallon toilet. From the Toto website

It uses less water.

Dual-Max is on the Dual Flush Aquia toilets. It has a two button that lets you choose 0.9 or 1.6 gallons

Most of these have an interior trapway of 2-1/8" which Toto has determined to be ideal for both siphoning and passing waste with the low water amounts that toilets use today.

Many other manufacturers are now using that spec too.

ADA
American Disabilities Act
Requires a finished height of 17" or more inches to the top of the seat.
The seat adds about one inch.
The bowl also needs to be elongated.

Looking inside the tank of the Toto Aquia CST414M dual flush toilet.

 

[spicoli15]

I'm Back

Hello there Terry,

Just to let you know that I did end up buying 3 toto drakes for my home. Would of purchased them from you but your site states that you do not ship outside of the state of WA.

Here is what I got, I hope they are good choices and the price was good too.

CST744S (2 of them) in Sedonna Beige with seat (softclose)

CST743S (1 of them) in Sedonna Beige with a seat (softclose)

 

[Terry]

Thanks for the update.
Sounds like a good deal.
I wind up selling a lot of the Beige ones.

 

[Rickochet]

Gerber Avalanche Report

I have an Avalanche that has been flawless so far, with about 1 year of use. It will flush an avalanche with no problems. Since I never used a Toto brand toilet, I can not supply a good comparison with a Toto, but this Gerber unit receives high marks from my family! I am going to buy another one for our second bathroom.

 

[RedHouse]

What is the difference between E Max and G Max

 

[Oscondoles]

Drake vs Avalanche

I could not make up my mind, so I bought one Toto Drake and one Gerber Avalanche. We have had them a little more than 2 years. Summary - although the Drake tends to leave a little more residue after a solid waste event, it performs slightly better than the Avalanche in all other respects. Here are the details:

1. The Drake seems to be a more robust flusher. We use the toilets equally, more or less. The drake clogged once and was easy to clear. The Avalanche has clogged on at least 5 occasions. Each time, it took considerable effort to get it working again - multiple plunges and multiple flushes.

2. The Avalanche is a cleaner flusher - less residue after large, solid waste deposits.

3. I have not quantified, but it appears the Drake uses slightly less water per flush, based upon the flapper open time and the time required to fill the tank.

4. Although we are on public water, we do have a problem with scale build-up. The Drake seems to stay cleaner longer than the Avalanche; I have had to mechanically scrape the scale off the Avalanche a few times.

 

[MarthaB]

Gerber Avalanche - running?

I've been impressed with my Avalanche since it was installed about a year ago -- but just within the past week I've noticed it running a few times. The flapper is closing fine, and the refill tube is well above the high water level. Toilet seems to fill normally and then ALMOST shut off -- I can't even see a line of water coming out of the tube -- but I can still hear a whisper of sound until I shut off at the water source.
Any thoughts about what's going on and what to do about it?
THANKS

 

[Terry]

If you put food coloring or dye in the tank, you can tell if water is getting into the bowl.

 

[joe01880]

I installed a Gerber Avalanche Friday morning. I have done two toilet installs in the last 2 weeks. The first was a TOTO Drake in my main bath and the second the Avalanche in my 1/2 bath.
I was so impressed with the TOTO that i wanted a second one for my half bath to replace the sorry excuse for a no name toilet that we have been having trouble with since we bought this house 10 years ago.. The half bath has a 14in rough. The plumbing supply house i bought my TOTO from did not have a Sedona Beige Toilet in a 14in rough. The employee i spoke to ensured me the Gerber Avalanche will flush as well as a TOTO Drake so I bought it, it was a few dollars cheaper than the TOTO. I am neither a young man nor a pro so it took me a while to do the install taking my time and making sure i do everything correct. With stopping to explain what I was doing and why to my wife and having to stand once in a while and walk out a still stiff back from the last install (read my Cadet 3 review) the total time actually working on the install was 1.5 hours, like i said I'm not a pro at this. The install went smoothly although the instruction or lack thereof seem to be assuming you are a pro toilet installer. They are not very detailed but i was able to figure out what went where and got the job done.
The Avalanche has a good strong flush, I had to adjust the water level upon filling the tank for the first time and hook up the flush chain to the flush handle, something i did not have to do with either the Cadet 3 i installed and removed a week or so earlier or the TOTO Drake that replaced it. It has flushed the best i can throw at it and I can really throw so i am pleased with its performance so far. There are no leaks and it’s doing its job as expected. I would recommend this toilet if someone asked me. If my opinion of the Avalanche changes i will update this review but for now it sits quietly doing its job.

 

[Gary Swart]

What's done is done, but there are several Toto models that use the Unifit adapter for 14" rough-ins. (Same toilets on a different size adapter for 10" and 12" rough-in) These toilets and adapters install do not install the way other toilets do, but are still within the capabilities of a DIY that can read and follow directions. I'm not suggesting you pull the Gerber out and change to one of these Toto models, but should the Gerber give you cause to replace it, now you know you have an excellent option.