Gasoline Storage tank question

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Randyj, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

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    I have a customer wanting me to design a gasoline delivery system so that he doesn't have to carry several 5 gallon cans of gas down hill and over a long walk way to his dock. Just looking for ideas, not necessarily looking for legal issues but safety is absolutely most important. I'd like to get suggestions on tanks for storage, types of materials to use or information on where to look for this kind of information. Since this is for a private home I think commercial regulations may not have to apply.
  2. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

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    Good luck with that.

    You may be able to do Diesel fuel, but gasoline ? Not so sure.

    The EPA can tell you what you can do.


    Good Luck.
  3. bluebinky

    bluebinky Member

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    Santa Clara, CA
    Sounds like nothing but headaches to me.

    Hate to sound like a smart-ass, but maybe some kind of sling and/or different style of can to make carrying the cans easier. Exercise is good in moderation...
  4. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

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    yep... and I bet they've got plenty of regulations since this is to deliver gasoline over water to a boat...
  5. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

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    Almost every farm in the country has their own fuel tank for dispensing to equipment. The problem in your situation is that a fuel truck needs to be able to drive up to the tank to fill it. If this were feasible, the guy would not want the tank in the first place.
  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

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    I think he is looking for a small pipeline.

    If it is a big enough lake, he might be able to get deliveries by water.

    I think a quad ATV to haul stuff might be the quicker and easier route.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2014
  7. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

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    This is true.. and much along the lines of what I'm thinking. The idea is kinda like how to plumb SAFELY from a tank to a dock like at a marina. Maybe I should check with one of the small companies that operate locally. I'd leave tank size up to the customer as I'm sure he's talking less than 100 gallons... and probably an above ground storage tank. I'm wondering whether using rubber hose with some kind of nozzle like at a gas pump or a galvanized pipe would be best... and if such thing is reasonable to do. This guy has the money, but he expects to be treated fairly.
    I think we're not looking at a tanker type truck delivery, more like a few 5 gallon cans in the back of a pick up truck... gasoline for pleasure boats and jet ski's for recreational use for a family of weekenders on the lake.
  8. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

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    You have to be very careful because of static electricity.


    Good Luck.
  9. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

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    Very true.... I was raised in a mom & pop gas station/grocery store and saw new tanks & gas pumps put in... back then they used what appeared to be plain old steel pipes and steel tanks all coated with tar or something to keep them from rusting. Since then there has been all the EPA regulations and lots of stuff there about vapor issues.... when we add that to delivering gasoline over water we have another issue to deal with...
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

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    Do a search for "fuel caddy" That gives about a 25 gallon container on wheels with a dispensing nozzle. Some have a transfer pump.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2014
  11. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

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    "Delivery system" would include dispensing. A fuel caddy is no help when you have to get it down about 75 or so steps and across a 75 ft walkway to a dock.... maybe a similar idea with a 100 ft. hose...
  12. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

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    You could use a Trolly.
  13. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

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    yah... but too complicated. But not a bad idea for getting toys & supplies to and from the dock. Matter of fact, several of the high dollar places do have trams that go up and down the hills/cliffs to the lake including a few with elevators.
  14. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

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    You need to find out what state agency regulates fuel dispensing equipment in your state and follow their guidelines. Any fuel storage as such must be in approved containment, and if any part of the system is underground it will quite surely be subject to scheduled professional leak testing by a licensed testing business.
  15. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

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    True... so far my research has indicated that even people who deal with such plumbing for a living do not know a whole lot about this particular application. Everything is proposed to be above ground and not more than 100 gallon capacity. LOTS of regulations kick in once the capacity reaches 1100 gallons... Otherwise, seems that it may be somewhat the same as setting a propane tank above ground, maybe even simpler. Somewhat like heating oil...
  16. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    Maybe it's different where you are, but here, this would be a nonstarter, for no reason other than there is probably a prohibition against it in the local municipality's codes.

    The issues you need to evaluate are: (1) gasoline, (2) by a lake (water), (3) underground storage (hard) or aboveground storage (probably dangerous), (4) dispensing of motor fuel.

    I completely disagree that this is anything remotely like storing fuel oil. The volatility of gasoline means that even at 100 gallons you are putting a potential bomb on these people's property. The idea of storing it out in the sun in and of itself is likely an issue. The idea of storing it near a public water area is an issue. Here, the DEC tells people they can't build a 4x4 wood lean-to near the water. Gasoline tank? They would laugh the propertyowner out of the room. And if someone just "went and did it" without the proper permits, they would drop fines on the propertyowner and anyone who helped them that would be financially-ruinous for many years to come. Again, it may be different where you are.

    However, if you manage to navigate the legal thicket, I know we would love to hear how it all works out. In the meantime, the suggestions of alternatives that others on here have recommended are the kind of suggestions that should be taken seriously.
  17. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    The EPA gets involved in any petroleum system with underground components, which is why many shops have eliminated their underground waste storage tanks and use above ground ones with overhead piping.
  18. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

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    Well just call me a stupid redneck... nothing personal, but that sounds a lot like paranoia. Marinas pretty much do exactly this with far more gasoline and tankers tote this stuff around all the time. Yes, it is explosive, one of the most dangerous explosives known to man. That's how it powers vehicles. This is boonies, not big city and there are no community covenants. There is nothing here about storing it out in the sun.... all is to be under shade or some kind of shelter. The quantity of gasoline we are talking about is just a fuzz more than the size of the tank in my big boat. From my research there is no permit required for quantities less than 1100 gallons. I think the big question as far as legality is concerned may be permanent v.s. portability. Pretty much the only requirement I have found is to have a proper size fire extinguisher available the proper distance from the dispensing area and storage area. I have sent emails to the appropriate environmental management agency for their comments and to satisfy their requirements. If it were a commercial dock then this would involve a lot of legal requirements. Since information on this particular type of installation is difficult to come up with there appears to be little legislation and few laws that apply which is a good thing... we don't need more laws telling us what to do, just good common sense about doing it. I do definitely appreciate all comments whether I agree with them or not.
    HJ... everything is proposed to be above ground.
  19. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    I certainly don't intend to sound condescending. Look, your response is rational. However, at least here, there is nothing rational about the enviro-laws and regulations and enforcement authorities, particularly as pertains to private residences. Like I said in my post, I would be interested to see what you come up with.

    FWIW, here's an example. Friend owns a property by the water. Property has had a shed on it for literally a century. Shed would be not permitted to be constructed today. Friend hires a contractor to refurbish the shed on exactly the same footprint as previous (all she would be allowed). She gets all the plans approved, including by the DEC. Contractor starts work and, given that the "refurbishment" is basically a gut-redo, levels the thing as his first step. DEC inspector becomes aware of this. Blam: Stop Work. Remove what the contractor had constructed. Permits cancelled. Appeals. Appeals. Money money money. Nope. There can never be a shed built there ever again.

    It's not rational.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  20. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

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    If you have a boat big enough that you have to worry about carrying fuel, chances are the lake is big enough that it will have a Marina that sells the proper, High Octane, No Street Tax Fuel, right on the lake.

    Boat Owners must be lazy, and think they can do whatever they please in that neck of the woods.


    Good Luck.
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