Freeze damaged hosebib. Professional Opinion Please

[bitslizer]

Thank you in advance...

So my garden sillcock froze and burst over winter, causing water damaage in the basement this summer when i started using it. This was after my siding was replaced last year.

I (not a lawyer or plumber) believe it was due to the siding company never securing the sillcock by using a siding spacer (ie Mansfeld 337-3012) and screwing the sillcock securing against the house, causing cold air leakage and that since it was not secured, the sillcock was angled improperly draining in instead of out causing the freeze and burst (see last link at bottom for a picture halfway down the page).

The siding company said that since the pipe can move (see videos below), its not installed properly and is a pre-existing condition and therefore they are not responsible and will not file an insurance claim, but my view is that if they screwed it back against the house like how it was before they did their work, this would not have happened.

I'm trying to get some additional professional opinion to see where I stand. I'm leaning toward filing a BBB complaint at this point.

Videos, 2nd vid can fast forward near the end to see pipe moving
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-6KyGL1JQqFWVpUOXZSNnFaSFE

Siding spacer example
https://www.google.com/webhp?source...q=Mansfield+337-3012+Grey+Siding+Spacer+Wedge

Angling sillcock, halfway down the page
http://structuretech1.com/2014/02/how-to-prevent-outside-faucets-from-freezing-2/

 

[Terry]

Did you remove the hose before the start of Winter?
That was most likley the cause. If the hose had been removed, it wouldn't have frozen.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[bitslizer]

Did you remove the hose before the start of Winter?
That was most likley the cause. If the hose had been removed, it wouldn't have frozen.

Yes the hose was removed before start of winter, but since the sillcock was not screwed against the house it end up tilting in instead of out so water did not drain out but coollected by the valve where it froze and burst the pipe

 

[hj]

Screwing the hose faucet to the siding would NOT have changed its angle, because the piping on the inside of the wall could NOT alter its slope and therefore the hose faucet would STILL have been sloping the wrong way, UNLESS the pipe was relocated.

 

[bitslizer]

Screwing the hose faucet to the siding would NOT have changed its angle, because the piping on the inside of the wall could NOT alter its slope and therefore the hose faucet would STILL have been sloping the wrong way, UNLESS the pipe was relocated.

Thank you for your reply.

Maybe I was not communicating clearly. I've edited and upload the videos to Youtube to help explain. Please let me know if this change your view in anyway.

The pipe inside is not locked down near the hose bibe allowing it to go in/out and up/down. Therefore the piping can alter its slope? please see video #1

My thoughts was that, if the Hose bib is screwed/secured against the Treated Band Joist in a secure fashion (and not the siding as the siding would not have provided any support). It would have been enough to at least level out if not tilted out the hosebib and prevent excessive water from collecting by the valve stem. I lived in the house for serveral years with even colder winter without problems prior to the siding replacement.

Forgive my rudimentary MS Paint skills

My backyard hosebib was screwed in and secured against the treated band joist and did not froze/burst, my front yard (the one that froze) was not screwed/secured.

 

[Gary Swart]

I understand you want professional help, but you need professional legal help. We can tell you only a couple of things, the hose must be removed before freezing and there must be a downward tilt. As to a legal case, I think it would depend on what could be proved, not just your word. I wish you luck.

 

[hj]

The PIPE should have been properly secured, so it did NOT go in/out/up/down, and NOT depend on the hose bibb screws to orient it downwards. If the pipe weighed enough it would still have flexed the hose bibb backwards.

 

[Dj2]

Whenever you hire a contractor, you the owner, become the general contractor and job manager, and your contractor becomes the sub contractor. As the GM, you have to go over, inspect what the sub has done and request a correction (if any) at the conclusion of the job and before you make a final payment.

Had you done that, you would have caught the loose pipe and had it corrected by the sub.

Now what? Don't waste your time with BBB. Talk to a construction lawyer or two to see if you have a case or not. My gut feeling says you don't.

 

[Reach4]

Expecting screws on the outside (on left and right no less) to apply enough torque to lift the inside plumbing is asking a lot. I think the angle of the pipe should have been, and should be, established inside.

 

[BillTheEngineer]

That does not look like a frost free hose bib. If it is not that it's really anyone's fault other than yours for not shutting off the supply to it. You could argue that if it were sealed as it was before the siding were installed it would not have froze. But it all come down to money and how much are you willing to risk to what you may or may not get back.

 

[Flapper]

That does not look like a frost free hose bib. If it is not that it's really anyone's fault other than yours for not shutting off the supply to it. You could argue that if it were sealed as it was before the siding were installed it would not have froze. But it all come down to money and how much are you willing to risk to what you may or may not get back.

It is a frost free hose bibb.

 

[xprtplumber]

That looks to be a pretty short Frost Free hose bib, here in the north we never install anything shorter than 8" so that the water is shut off well inside the heated space. Looks like your bib shut off just inside the heated space and broke right against the cold wall area. Also, from the picture it looks like that break is only 2" away from the outside of the structure, is there insulation in the wall? if so how much? what is the wall construction 2x4, 2x6? most manufactures recommend that the hose bib protrude well into the heated part of the structure, minimum of 4" so if you have a 2x4 wall bib must be 8" long and that wall must be properly insulated

 

[Terry]

That looks to be a pretty short Frost Free hose bib, here in the north we never install anything shorter than 8" so that the water is shut off well inside the heated space.

The 4" hosebib was one that I replaced, not the original poster. And even that would have been fine if the hose had been taken off. The supply to it was fine. Seattle doesn't get as cold as even the Eastern side of the State.
The original poster thought there was left over water from being sloped wrong. Which I kind of doubt. Normally a little bit of water on the bottom of a pipe isn't enough to split the pipe.

Every Spring, we do replace a lot of burst hosebibs where the homeowners had forgotten the hoses was attached.

 

[Absaroka Joe]

We have a lot of calls every spring to replace hose bibs. They can freeze for many different reasons. Just replace this one and move on. Its not that much money and certainly not worth your time trying to assign blame. Life is too short. Find a more important issue to complain about.

 

[Jadnashua]

FWIW, Woodford makes at least one frost-free silcock that will drain even if a hose is left attached.

http://www.woodfordmfg.com/woodford/Wall_Faucet_Pages/Model-30.html