Flowise Dual Flush 2479.216 dual flush toilet, problems and questions

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by TIBO, Nov 6, 2008.

  1. TIBO

    TIBO New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Quebec
    Hi there,

    I recently bought a Flowise #2479.216 and I'm just not shure about if it is ok or not.

    Here are my questions:
    - Is it normal that at the end of the flush cycle there is no "air sucking action" (in other words: the water doesn't completely go)?

    - Is it normal that there is only water in the little lower part of the bowl, where the drain starts (about 3 inches wide by 4 inches long BY 1 1/2 inches deep? I know that it is suppose to retain less water in the bowl but that little, I doubt it!

    - When we use the toilet for liquid waste, is it normal that some of it remains (the water after the little flush doesn't become perfectly whitty clear)? Because of that un-prooven performances , we didn't have the courage to test the solid waste. Is it safe to use it normally with solid waste?

    - By the way, according to the poor manual, I think that the water level in the tank is ok, if I compare my tank and the schema.

    - What is the popular appreciation of that model?

    - Is it possible to return a toilet to the store or American standard directly if we are not satisfied? (Well, before being satisfied or not, I need your advice on this model).

    Thanks a lot guys,
    - Eric Thibeault

    http://www.americanstandard-us.com/Assets/pdfs/as/specsheet/SpecSheet_2037.pdf

    http://www.americanstandard-us.com/Assets/pdfs/as/parts/Parts_2037.pdf

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2008
  2. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I must tell you that I know nothing about this product as I have written off Am.Std. long ago...

    Sorry to hear that you bought a piece of junk toilet from Big Box...

    There are good toilets out there just not with that brand.
    If you could return it I would.
    Then research good toilets.
    Click on the banner ad in the upper right corner.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2008
  3. TIBO

    TIBO New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Quebec
    Hello Redwood,

    Thanks for the reply. You wrote that this is a piece of junk. As a master plumber, can you elaborate a bit more on that for my own knowledge please?

    Also you wrote "If you could return it I would". Sorry, but I'm a french speaking person so I'm not sure about what you wrote. Did you wanna say that I could give the return of the toilet a try?

    Thanks,
    - Eric
  4. Peanut9199

    Peanut9199 Customer Service Manager Plumbing Wholesale

    Messages:
    875
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    If it is not flushing properly give American Standard a call.

    American Standard, 2480 Stanfield Rd., Mississauga, Ontario, L4Y 1S2
    Customer Care Center: Toll Free: (800) 387-0369, Mississauga Area: (905) 306-1093
  5. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    American Standard used to be a great company with great products.
    But IMHO they have not made a decent toilet since the mandated 1.6 Gallons Per Flush toilets came out.

    Today they are manufactured in Mexico, Guatamala, Dominican Republic, Brazil, and lord knows where else.

    Their Quality control is non existant and product engineering poor with many of their models sporting numbers behind the name like the infamous Chamion 4...
    This basically means that it is the 4th version that hit the market because of faults in the previous models... Still not perfect but getting closer.

    I am a plumber and I cannot afford to do each job twice or have callbacks on unseen defects. I have adopted the position of not installing that brand unless it's customer supplied in which case I get paid for the installation regardless of product problems...

    I install Toto as my choice when installing a toilet. They work well and I have not had a defect or, callback in 5 years of installing them.

    Here you have a brand new product and it's not working properly of it is working poorly. It should not be that way!

    If they will give you a refund I would take it and run!
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,999
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Being a gravity dual flush, you will have the small water spot in the bowl.
    I would consider that normal for a dual flush like that.
    The Toto Aquia dual flush and the Caroma dual flush have the small water spot too.
    It's also a washdown bowl, so it may be that some of the water does not leave the bowl on the small flush.
    Hard to say without seeing it.

    Can you post a few pictures here for us to see?

    I'm sure it is.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2008
  7. TIBO

    TIBO New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Quebec
    Thanks a lot guys for your posts.

    All of this is really appreciated.

    I will post pictures probably tonight or tomorrow.

    Have a nice day to all of you.
    - Eric
  8. TIBO

    TIBO New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Quebec
    Hello guys,

    Here a photo of my toilet to check with you if the water level is normal.

    I can also tell you that it took 2 full flush to get rid of the solid waste. I assume that it is not normal and I want to know what can be done about that. We have the toilet since a month.

    Thanks,
    - Eric

    Attached Files:

  9. Peanut9199

    Peanut9199 Customer Service Manager Plumbing Wholesale

    Messages:
    875
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Yes that is normal any more water in the bowl and the lower flush would not be able to clear the water.
  10. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,615
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    bowl

    Slowly pour water into the toilet to see if the water level rises, and if so how far. Unless it is completely full to its design level before flushing, it will not flush properly.
  11. TIBO

    TIBO New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Quebec
    I'll try that and let you know.

    Thanks
  12. TIBO

    TIBO New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Quebec
    Hello guys,

    I poored about 6 liters of water slowly in the bowl but the level didn't rise. Is it normal?
  13. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,999
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]
    I think that is normal.
  14. TIBO

    TIBO New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Quebec
    Hello Terry,

    For my own curiosity, can you give me a brief explanation why on this toilet, the water level is always the same, even if I poor a big amount of water in it?

    I'm - as you could see - not a plumber and I this concept doesn't make sense to me. ;)

    Thank you
  15. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,999
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]
    The water in the bowl can only be as high as the top bend of the trapway.
    That acts as a dam for the water, add more water and it just goes over the dam.
  16. TIBO

    TIBO New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Quebec
    image worth a thousand words... thanks again Terry
  17. Neotonic

    Neotonic New Member

    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Southern California or Russia
    You my Friend have American Standard's Attempt at Washdown Flush Technology.

    Washdown is Different from Siphonic in that Washdown pushes the waste out of the bowl unlike what you are used to where the toilet would pull the waste out.

    The Low water level is normal because that is how much water the toilet was designed to hold in the bowl since it is a Washdown Toilet.

    You toilet is not broken if it doesn't make the air bubbly sound because the water is being pushed out.
    A Caroma Toilet
    [​IMG]
    See similarities
    [​IMG]
    The Caroma is near the bottom of the chart here. Washdown Lg. Diam. Trap
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2008
  18. TIBO

    TIBO New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Quebec
    Hi Neotonic,

    This is a really nice piece of information.

    Thanks
  19. Neotonic

    Neotonic New Member

    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Southern California or Russia
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2008
  20. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,999
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Any American bowl with a 3" flush valve is going to kick Caroma's butt when it comes to drain line carry.

    At least if you go by testing for toilets done by independants.
    1.6 gallon, Washdown Large Diameter trap (Caroma), 79% of average carry distance
    1.6 gallon, 3" Flapper siphon jet, 108% of average carry distance
    1.6 gallon Pressure assist, 132% of average carry distance

    I sell 3,000 toilets a year, very few of the Aussi dual flush.
    There are plenty of better products out there.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2008
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