Fleck 5810SXT ER code

[Dzimm27]

I have a 5810SXT that we noticed seems to be regenerating more often than expected. When I walk it through its cycles it goes to a step with function code ER and an exclamation point in a circle below it and a time of 60:00 and it starts counting down. Pressing the regen button moves it to the next step and everything seems to work normally.

Early this morning I cleaned out the brine tank where the salt had solidified in the bottom of the tank/fill tube and now water flows better in those steps. In the two walkthroughs I did this morning the step progression on manual regeneration was:
B1, ER ! 60:00, B2, RR, BF
I assume it believed the brine draw had already occurred as I had reset the power mid-cycle just before running this perhaps.

After cleaning out the brine tank and starting again, the step progression was:
B1, BD (which then went to ER ! 60:00 after a short bit), , B2, RR, BF

During the BD (brine draw) phase I had pre-filled the water in the brine tank about halfway to the normal height so there should have been water to pull. After the display went to ER ! 60:00 I pulled the brine draw tube and put my finger on the side of the valve where it pulls in the water and there was suction that i could feel grabbing my finger. When the tube is plugged in it does pull water, and I confirmed by sound and disconnecting after it had started to pull some to see some water in the tube at the top.

I am not finding anything in the service manual for this for an ER status. I see error codes with numbers, but I am not getting any error codes (that I know how to see at least). Just ER (which I am assuming means Error) and a 60 minute countdown.

Brainstorming a few thoughts:
Valve somehow is stuck for brine draw function and cant switch in/out of it
Air leak somewhere not allowing full enough flow in the brine draw pull
Sensor somehow not seeing the brine draw flow happening (if this is a thing)
Valve needs a complete reset and reprogram due to some power related blip/bug

Any pointers or clues as to find out what the underlying error seems to be?

 

[Reach4]

1. Other than the "ER!" indication, is there any symptom on the softener?
2. How long has this been in service?
3. What is your SV (software version)? Mine is 3.0

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Dzimm27]

1. Other than the "ER!" indication, is there any symptom on the softener?
2. How long has this been in service?
3. What is your SV (software version)? Mine is 3.0

Other than I explained above, all I can think of is that it went to ER and a 60 minute timer right after entering the BD phase, but it did show BD for a short while. Before I cleaned out the 1-1.5" salt that had formed into a solid mass at the bottom of the brine tank (I need to put in more salt badly) and within the fill/draw/float tube (it was solid along the bottom and I was unsure it was allowing proper flow in/out), it was hard to tell if the water was rising during the BF stage. Afterwards it was noticeable it was filling. Everything else seems fine and the wife even commented that the water was extremely soft yesterday. I think we've had some power blips that threw off the schedule some, but I know it has run twice in a very short period of time.

It will have been in service 2 years in January, so relatively new.

My software version is 3.1

Of HUGE help, going into the diagnostic mode I noticed I had a flow rate of 3.3 consistently and located a soaker hose outside we had left on by mistake. Helps explain the quick regen this week but not sure if that explains the ER ! at all.

 

[Bannerman]

I had a flow rate of 3.3 consistently and located a soaker hose outside we had left on by mistake.

Consider bypassing all outside spigots utilized for irrigation as softened water is not beneficial and may be undesirable for some plant species.

 

[Dzimm27]

Consider bypassing all outside spigots utilized for irrigation as softened water is not beneficial and may be undesirable for some plant species.

Not an option in my case and I use potassium for this reason

 

[Bannerman]

I use potassium

This is the likely reason for the hardened accumulation in the brine tank.
Potassium Chloride is more temperature-sensitive than Sodium Chloride, resulting in solubility changes including re-crystallization.
Here is an article which may be of interest: https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/53

With the high cost of Potassium C, you may wish to bypass the softener while outdoor vegetation irrigation is being performed.

 

[Reach4]

Other than I explained above, all I can think of is that it went to ER and a 60 minute timer right after entering the BD phase, but it did show BD for a short while. Before I cleaned out the 1-1.5" salt that had formed into a solid mass at the bottom of the brine tank (I need to put in more salt badly) and within the fill/draw/float tube (it was solid along the bottom and I was unsure it was allowing proper flow in/out), it was hard to tell if the water was rising during the BF stage. Afterwards it was noticeable it was filling.

Using KCl with a 5810sxt downflow softener, you should be using RF=dFFF. With that, the brine tank fills first then sits for a while, rather than filling at the end of the regen. The brine tank would be normally empty of liquid (except for the bit at the bottom below the arrow on the air check valve).

I also find no reference to "ER!", but it would be cool if it was some new feature that a leak is suspected due to constant flow. Some day I might watch to see what displays during BD. I expect BD and the minute countdown, but I never checked.

Note the Flow Indicator icon, on the right, indicates flow. In the future you could look at that icon from time to time.

 

[Dzimm27]

Here are my settings in this post that you and others helped me with.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index....filter-system-needed.73468/page-3#post-549619

I do not have a RF=DFFF option. Wish I did.

Just to confirm, the message was an ER with a flashing exclamation point in a circle below it. It seems crazy this is not listed in the manual. Have not tried calling Pentair yet but they may not talk to me.

 

[Reach4]

I do not have a RF=DFFF option. Wish I did.

Dang. In the service manual, page 10, column 2, section "3. Regenerant Flow (Display Code RF)" says that should be one of the choices.

 

[Bannerman]

While a DFFF setting is specified in the 2017 North America 5810 & 5812 Service Manual, only UFFF (upflow) appears to be mentioned in the June & July 2018 revisions of the European 5810 Installation Manual.
https://www.pentairaquaeurope.com/sites/default/files/installer_manual_fleck_5810-sxt_en.pdf

Perhaps the Brine Fill First option for downflow softeners was removed in later firmware versions.

 

[ditttohead]

DFFF can be done but it is programmed as a custom setting in the SXT. You would set a brine fill cycle, pause, etc... I may do a quick video tutorial on that this weekend.

In the meantime, try custom programming
BF
Pause
Backwash
BD
RR
End.

This should work much better. Be sure to pause for about 1-2 hours.

 

[Dzimm27]

Oddly, in looking - the service manual that came with the unit (thanks dittohead) DOES list dFFF, but the installer manual I found that had more information and I think I primarily used during doing the initial settings does NOT. I will have to look at my valve controller to see if the programming in there does or does not have that setting. Both manuals show options for "Other Downflow" which I assume can be customized like dittohead suggests

That said - can someone give me a refresher on why going to downflow fill first will help? This is just to avoid the re-crystalization in the bottom of the tank right? For what it is worth, the crystalized section was only at the height of the air gap/air check valve at the bottom of the draw/fill tube in the tank. It would seem that level of water will always reside in the tank no matter the fill section. Otherwise I have had zero bridging/crystalization issues higher than that (but whatever error I was getting did make me wonder if something had crystalized in the brine line/tank components and made flow in/out slower - so maybe related). If otherwise it would appear I have not had issues, am I still benefiting in some other way by changing programming to brine fill first?

@ditttohead Are you familiar with the ER code and flashing exclamation mark that I was experiencing with a 60 minute countdown? It seems to occur during the brine draw stage right after B1. I have not yet tested again after finding and shutting off the soaker hose that was causing my constant water flow, but I don't really know how this would have affected it unless it felt there was not enough water flow to create suction to its preferred level. We do have lower water pressure after putting in the softener/filter you recommended but it is well worth it for the quality of water. Next time around or whenever we have reason to purchase again I think we need to go up in size of tank to get better flow/pressure.

Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

That said - can someone give me a refresher on why going to downflow fill first will help? This is just to avoid the re-crystalization in the bottom of the tank right? For what it is worth, the crystalized section was only at the height of the air gap/air check valve at the bottom of the draw/fill tube in the tank.

How about it being accepted wisdom to use fill first with KCl? I have no reason to think that the advantage would only affect the bottom of the tank, your hard stuff at the bottom of your tank notwithstanding.

Did you find the link Bannerman made in #6 not compelling enough?

What is the downside, do you think? During brine fill, the softener is softening. I think you would adjust the RT earlier to put the bypassed time (backwash, BF, fast rinse) in the desired time slot. I am not sure on that point.

For what it is worth, the crystalized section was only at the height of the air gap/air check valve at the bottom of the draw/fill tube in the tank.

Brine gets drawn down to the level of the arrow. However I think fill first should help higher. Had you cleaned your tank after a longer period, the hard stuff might have been found higher than you found it.

Are you familiar with the ER code and flashing exclamation mark that I was experiencing with a 60 minute countdown? It seems to occur during the brine draw stage right after B1.

Everybody gets the countdown part. The 60 is because you have BD=60.

 

[Dzimm27]

Plenty compelling, and I plan to do so. Just curious if there were other benefits/drawbacks to understand. I am curious as to why I didn’t go down this pathway originally (custom programming probably not discussed) and why I have not had bridging issues considering I have this in a Texas garage. Maybe just lucky or did not notice/matter. Bridged salt probably dissolves like regular salt as long as the water covers it.

Other than longer total regen time to dissolve salt into the water, there probably are none.

Good call on the 60 minute timer on BD, I had not connected that with the ER code as the BD was not displaying but you are probably spot on. Still odd that the ER is not mentioned anywhere in any manual.

 

[Reach4]

Just curious if there were other benefits/drawbacks to understand. I am curious as to why I didn’t go down this pathway originally

I probably got too un-focused on
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/water-softener-filter-system-needed.73468/page-3#post-545148

 

[Bannerman]

why I have not had bridging issues considering I have this in a Texas garage.

I anticipate your issue will be not so much bridging, but mostly recrystallization of the potassium when the temperature within the garage becomes cooler at night. If your softener regenerates 1X per week, with brine fill last, the prepared brine will have 7 days & nights of warming > cooling cycles for recrystallization to occur before the brine is utilized. With Brine Fill First, the temperature of the incoming water and resulting brine will have limited opportunity to change during the 1-2 hour delay before the brine is immediately consumed during the regen cycle to follow.

Although a softener's salt setting is commonly based on 3 lbs Sodium Chloride for each gallon entering the brine tank, as you can see from the chart, 3 lbs/gallon is actually a rounded-up amount which is close-enough. Because the saturation rate for potassium is much less than NACL when the water temperature is less than 80 degrees F, the incoming water's temperature should be measured to determine the appropriate Brine Fill setting adjustment needed to dissolve the equivalent #lbs of KCL that is needed when using NACL.