Finishing up a Kerdi shower questions

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by MikeQ, Apr 6, 2014.

  1. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    830
    Location:
    Montreal
    Here is another example of the Latasil and Spectralock usage .

    Latasil at plane changes.jpg Always masking tape and tooling technique .


    The linear mosaic was grouted first -- you don't want to gently clean any smears of silicone in the army of mosaic joints -- , then latasil and then grout the rest .

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  2. MikeQ

    MikeQ New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Washington
    Roberto - looks like you have done a lot of modern high end stuff, very nice. Thanks for posting the photos.

    Yes, was very careful not to use water with the urethane grout. Not sure why people are worried about it in showers though - every product needs appropriate dry times. I guess if the schedule was super tight it could be an issue. Not my problem as I am far too slow for it to be an issue, lol!

    After all my research looking for the best product to caulk with I just realized I don't know enough about any of them to differentiate silicone available locally such as Dap and GE II from more professional products like CBP silicone and Latisil. Is there a difference in adhesion, durability, mildew protection etc? I don't want to spend the money on 6 tubes just to have 5 of them go to waste and I don't have 10 years to test the samples for longevity. What differentiates these products? I don't care about customer support - even if I were so unlucky to get a bad batch I'm just going to cut it out and buy some more. And I'm not worried about that happening.

    Are these products really all the same?
  3. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    830
    Location:
    Montreal
    Latasil ....just a quote from the link provided at the beginning of the thread .


    Quote from Laticrete :

    '' LATASIL sealant is a high performance, one component, neutral cure, 100% silicone sealant designed for ceramic tile & stone applications.

    LATASILâ„¢

    LATASIL sealant is a high performance, one component, neutral cure, 100% silicone sealant designed for ceramic tile & stone applications.

    Uses:

    Exterior and interior use.
    Swimming pools and other wet area applications.
    Joints for ceramic tile & stone applications.
    Expansion joints in residential and commercial applications.

    Conforms to the following properties under ASTM C–920: Type S, Grade NS, Class 25, Use NT, Use I, Use M, Use G.
    Conforms to ASTM C-794 Adhesion Properties.
    Equipped with fungicides to resist mold & mildew growth.
    Resistant to pool chemicals.
    Matches top 19 LATICRETE grout colors and clear.
    Easy to smooth and tool.
    Excellent for masonry construction.
    Excellent movement capacity—25% extension & compression.
    Can be used where ceramic tile abuts glass and window framing. ''


    Can't explain it much better than that . I wouldn't lose any second of sleep once installed . And if you want to go to the extreme , there is also a primer to increase the bonding of the silicone . I don't think you need it , just make sure you don't have any dust residue .

    Another quote from the same link :

    Quote from Latasil's page :

    '' Best tile caulk

    High performance caulk providing years of maintenance free service.

    LATICRETE is proud to offer a high-quality line of caulks and sealants delivering tremendous adhesion, strength, and flexibility. LATICRETE caulks and sealants are engineered for optimum performance and come equipped with protection to aid in the resistance of staining, mold and mildew.

    LATICRETE manufactures caulks for interior or exterior applications and LATICRETE caulk is available in the most popular colors to match current trends in building material options.

    Unlike acrylic or siliconized acrylic caulk that will crack or deteriorate after a short time, LATICRETE caulks offer performance that matches the durability, longevity, and strength of your installation. Installation of LATICRETE caulk is quick and easy for both the professional and homeowner alike.

    Don’t settle for inferior products that quickly fail, give an unsightly appearance and allow for water passage. LATICRETE caulks provide years of high performance—whether you are installing a commercial exterior façade or a residential bathroom, LATICRETE caulks deliver the performance you’ve come to expect from the experts at LATICRETE. ''


    Ok , one more thing ...... Latasil doesn't have the shine of a regular silicone , if aesthetics are important .


    Laticrete has bright white available in Spectralock Epoxy Progrout and Latasil.

    Mapei has white or super white ( Avalanche ) in Kerapoxy , Kerapoxy CQ and Mapesil .

    ..............................
    ..........................
    ................

    The easiest way of choosing the silicone is to check for availability with the manufacturer of the grout of your choice .
  4. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,700
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Roberto do you really like Urethane Grout? I used it for my counter tops and find the product total crap. We left it a week before use. No water.

    I think the stuff is bunk.
  5. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    830
    Location:
    Montreal

    I would say so . Did use them once or twice -- DAP and GEII -- . The workability is not the same , it tends not to adhere so well -- no grabbing power -- and if it is stored to long it doesn't cure at all , even if it seems to be good .
    Never used them again .


    With the matching colors needs , there is no more of a choice and doubt which one to be used .
  6. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    830
    Location:
    Montreal

    I don't dislike it . I just heard '' horror stories '' about it , but some pros really like it .

    I've used it for a BS and the Jade color was just perfect . Couldn't get the same from an epoxy -- solid color -- .

    Easy to apply , easy to wash , but quite pricey compare to the others . And with the increased curing time .....oh well , not so bad after all .
  7. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,700
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    I only use the GE silicone. I love it. I hate the dap products - total crap. Always check the expiry date on silicone. They have a shelf life.

    Learned the lesson on expired silicone the hard way years ago.

    I have never had luck wit colour matched silicone's - that said I have only tried the Mapei line. There was another lesson in call backs. The stuff weeped out.
  8. MikeQ

    MikeQ New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Washington
    Wow. Now I'm more confused than ever!

    Maybe I'll try the Latasil - no one had anything bad to say about it and the less glossy surface sounds good to me.
  9. MikeQ

    MikeQ New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Washington
    When you say you find "the product" total crap, I imagine you are speaking of a specific product or formulation, not any urethane based grout. Which product did you have a bad experience with?
  10. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,700
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Star Quartz

    One of the old moderators on CT talked me into it.

    I tested the be-jesus out of it. Seemed like a great product. Then real life happened. Dinners. Kids baking. Crafts. Grout looks like crap.

    This was the stuff here...

    [​IMG]
  11. MikeQ

    MikeQ New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Washington
    John, did you use the original formula of QuartzLock (pre-2010 I believe) or the reformulated version?

    I'll let you know how the newer Dimensions (urethane grout from Bostik) holds up in my shower floor.
  12. MikeQ

    MikeQ New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Washington
    Caulk vs. Grout question

    This is a better bench which is screwed through the Hardi and into blocking. I had some KerdiFix leftover after filling the fastener holes so I applied it between the back faces of the bench and Kerdi covered walls as a bedding compound. It also has Kerdi applied to the top and front that laps onto the walls. It's very rigid and well sealed, probably over kill.

    [​IMG]

    I was considering just grouting the change of planes around the bench rather than using caulk.

    What do you think?
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,262
    Location:
    New England
    Two ways to look at this: industry standards call for caulk there. But, you could try grout, and it's not all that hard to get out and replace with caulk later if it fails. You do have to be very careful not to damage the Kerdi membrane behind it, though. In most cases, though, those joints eventually crack. Maybe not as much if you have and use central air, which helps keep the overall humidity levels similar between the summer/winter timeframes, but wood structures do expand and contract with humidity changes.

    This is by no means a long-term, large quantity sample, but I had an older house, plaster walls with no cracks after nearly 60-years...I grouted the wall joints. They may fail eventually, but have been fine for about 5-years now. Some pros I know nearly always grout, and tell the customer that they'll come back and change to caulk if it fails. Too late now, but an expansion joint there during tile laying would have met industry standards and no caulk would ever be required or needed. If those come in a color close to your grout choice, they can disappear.
  14. MikeQ

    MikeQ New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Washington
    ;)
    OK, you convinced me to grout.

    That wasn't hard was it?:D
  15. MikeQ

    MikeQ New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Washington
    BTW, I ordered some Latisil as well as some Sanded Color Sil from Color Rite today. That Color Rite website ordering process is right out of the Internet dark ages!

    First you have to type in your order manually in a text box with no fields making sure you don't forget the product type, size, quantity, finish and color. Then they send you an e-mail confirming receipt but you need to stay by the phone until they call you back so you can find out how much the products you ordered cost and so they can get payment information (there is no pricing information on their website and they have no distributors serving Washington State). I placed the order at 1:30 PST but since they are in OK they are on CST (so it was 3:30). I waited around for them to call me since the jobsite is remote and has no cellular coverage but no call today even though their website claims they ship most orders the same day received. I guess I'll stick around another day and hope they call me in the morning.

    I wonder if all of Oklahoma is this backwards when it comes to Internet sales?
  16. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

    Messages:
    379
    Location:
    LV,NV/ Nowhere,UT
    I just paid for 6 tubes of ColorSil this morning($12/tube). I put the order in Sunday, got the quote Monday, and called them today. They're really nice on the phone, but what a PITA.

    It better be good stuff.
  17. dhagin

    dhagin builder:anti-builder

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    oahu
    It is good stuff, but test the color(s) on a scrap piece of tile first and let cure before committing to the entire install. Don't ask me how I know. :(
  18. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

    Messages:
    379
    Location:
    LV,NV/ Nowhere,UT
    How far off was it, Dana?
  19. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

    Messages:
    379
    Location:
    LV,NV/ Nowhere,UT
    Just got the final receipt from Color Rite. They add the shipping after you give them payment info. The shipping was another $19.91. Grand total for 6 tubes is $91.61. Yeah, it better match.
  20. dhagin

    dhagin builder:anti-builder

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    oahu
    It was off far enough that we didn't use it, although we confirmed it was the proper color/mix/batch with ColorRite. Color was a dark brown to match Mapei Kerapoxy, chocolate or something. They gave us a full refund, but we spent a lot of time screwin around trying to figure it out.

    That said, I've used their caulks a number of times matching grout and solid surface materials, and only had a problem this one time. I'll use them again without hesitation, and may need to order a few tubes on the current job. More than likely you won't have any problems, just test first so's you don't have to cut out a bunch of silicone. ;)
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