Excessive sediment, pressure tank?

[Sierra90]

I’ve been looking around this forum the last few days and haven’t found exactly what I’m looking for, so I figured it was time to join and ask! I’ll start by saying there is ALOT of excellent info on here, and thanks in advance for anyone who can point me in the right direction!

Some basic info: I have a single family rancher, 1 full bath, kitchen sink,, clothes washer, water heater, and an outdoor hose faucet… a rather small system. I have a 20 gallon pressure tank, the system has no filter (soon to change).

I have recently, and seemingly out of nowhere, had extreme amounts of sediment in my water, if I had to describe it I’d say ‘rock chips’. I’m talking all in the last 3 days. I was away for work for a few nights when this started, the wife mentioned water pressure issues in the shower and bath faucet. When I got home I found them, and the toilet, to be completely clogged and non-flowing with rock chips. I then ran my outdoor hose into a bucket and in 5 gallons got a very healthy handful of sediment.

Fast forward to today, I called the one and only local well company. They seem rather confident it’s a failed pressure tank and want just shy of $1k to replace it. My water pressure seems fine coming out of the unrestricted garden faucet, and I don’t believe my pump is short cycling, tank has a hollow sound up top (not waterlogged). Could it possibly be the tank? I’m having a hard time believing it’s the tank? I would have assumed the root of the problem is in the actual well (cracked casing?) but I’m not expert.

Does that sound right?
Thanks I’m advance!

 

[Valveman]

Rock chips do not come out of a pressure tank. I would take the pipe loose at the well head or at least take a faucet completely off to get a high flow rate straight from the well. Catch some in a bucket. Are there chips? If so, let it run for a while and see if you can pump out the problem chips. Stuff that size will also clog up the pump. If the flow rate starts dropping off while pumping, that is probably what is happening.

Need to know if the well is cased to the bottom? What kind of perf or screen was used? Cased wells won't let stuff like that in unless the casing is parted or has a hole in it. Also, what diameter casing is it? A 3.5" pump in 4" casing can get stuck if enough rock chips land on top of the pump.

Probably going to need to pull the pump and clean the well. Running a camera down while you are at it is the best way to find out what is going on.

A 20 gallon tank only holds 5 gallons of water, so it is cycling shorter than you think. Cycling on and off can surge the well up and down and cause problems as well. But since it happened so quickly I am afraid it is a casing issue.

 

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[Reach4]

Not the answer to your question:

Precharged Pressure tank flush:
1. Connect a hose to the sediment drain valve, and run that to where you plan to drain the water. I suggest filtering the output through a cloth if you suspect the sediment may include sand.
2. Turn off the pump.
3. Open the drain valve, and let it drain until the water stops. It would be possibly interesting to watch the first water that comes out.
4. Close the valve, and turn the pump back on, and let pressure build.
5. Repeat steps 2, 3 and 4 as needed.

I agree that the chips are not caused by the pressure tank. Tank is probably fine.

How long was this well in service?

 

[Sierra90]

Rock chips do not come out of a pressure tank. I would take the pipe loose at the well head or at least take a faucet completely off to get a high flow rate straight from the well. Catch some in a bucket. Are there chips? If so, let it run for a while and see if you can pump out the problem chips. Stuff that size will also clog up the pump. If the flow rate starts dropping off while pumping, that is probably what is happening.

Need to know if the well is cased to the bottom? What kind of perf or screen was used? Cased wells won't let stuff like that in unless the casing is parted or has a hole in it. Also, what diameter casing is it? A 3.5" pump in 4" casing can get stuck if enough rock chips land on top of the pump.

Probably going to need to pull the pump and clean the well. Running a camera down while you are at it is the best way to find out what is going on.

A 20 gallon tank only holds 5 gallons of water, so it is cycling shorter than you think. Cycling on and off can surge the well up and down and cause problems as well. But since it happened so quickly I am afraid it is a casing issue.

I’ll have to get the particulars of the well tomorrow evening. I’m honestly not sure of the details, the well was in when I bought the house. Would information about casing and screen type be anywhere on the well head?
I ran my outdoor hose faucet wide open for a bit yesterday and filled a bucket, I got a fair amount of chips in it, they seemed to slow down after a while until you stopped for a bit and ran it again say half hour later then they just kept coming.

Not the answer to your question:

Precharged Pressure tank flush:
1. Connect a hose to the sediment drain valve, and run that to where you plan to drain the water. I suggest filtering the output through a cloth if you suspect the sediment may include sand.
2. Turn off the pump.
3. Open the drain valve, and let it drain until the water stops. It would be possibly interesting to watch the first water that comes out.
4. Close the valve, and turn the pump back on, and let pressure build.
5. Repeat steps 2, 3 and 4 as needed.

I agree that the chips are not caused by the pressure tank. Tank is probably fine.

How long was this well in service?

So unfortunately whoever installed the system didn’t install a drain valve on the tank. It’s plumbed directly into a T. I attempted to purge the tank using the hose faucet (my lowest faucet) with this exact method (found on YouTube). I got a decent amount of chips out, but they seemed to just keep coming.

I’ll get some pictures of the material that’s coming up posted tomorrow, I hope im describing it accurately. In a previous career I worked for a mining company running a rock drill, the material coming up looks like the rock chips produced during drilling.

I consider myself a very capable diy’er but know very little about wells. Im leaning towards a casing, it just makes sense where else would the chips enter the system?

 

[Reach4]

Often wells are drilled when the house is built. The county would normally have info. It is possible that some data will on the well cap, but don't count on that.

Neighbors may have info, and the home seller may even be available for questions like that.

The Lacos Sandmaster is designed to go before the pressure tank. You are supposed to put the pressure switch before that, so it is important that the pipes between the pressure switch and the pressure tank be large and short as practical.

 

[Valveman]

Some states keep drill logs on file that would have that information. Need to figure out what the stuff is. Pull the pump and run a camera is probably the next step.

 

[Sierra90]

Some states keep drill logs on file that would have that information. Need to figure out what the stuff is. Pull the pump and run a camera is probably the next step.

I’m pretty comfortable with plumbing, but unfortunately once it goes underground I’m not sure it’s something I can tackle. I think my well is rather deep, and wouldn’t know where to start with pulling the drop pipe out of the ground. Can it be done by hand?

I spoke with another well company this morning and they also seemed to think it’s the tank? This may get a little off topic and I thought of this after speaking with them, but If I were to replace the tank is going larger an option? Can you have too large a tank? If I did go bigger I’d have to relocate it from the crawl space to an indoor closet (due to height )next to the water heater, can that be done? From my research there’s mixed opinions.

 

[Fitter30]

Well service company can pull the pump. Submersible well pumps usually have a stainless screen to not have big pieces going through it. When pumps out then service guy can measure water levels and pump level. Pump is15 years old might want to replace it since its out already.

 

[Reach4]

How could it be the tank? If I were to speculate, then I would have to presume that there was a deposit of hardness materials onto the floor and walls of the tank. Then the hardness materials break off. If that were the case, then the chips would have slight curve, and probably have the outside curve a little smoother.

What dimensions are these pieces??

Also, hardness materials will dissolve fairly quickly in CLR and slowly in vinegar.

So if I considered that the material was not coming from the web, I might test for that by filtering before the pressure tank with maybe a wye filter or a very course large cartridge filter. I would pretty much only leave that in place while testing is going on. You want to make sure that any filter that you put before the pressure switch will not clog.

On the question of pulling the pump yourself, do you have a pitless adapter, where the water pipe is not at the top of the casing, or is the pipe at the top of the casing?

In most cases, the drop pipe will be 20 ft lengths of schedule 80 PVC. That is most easily handled by a derrick truck.

 

[Sierra90]

I was able to figure out who drilled the well, there’s a very faded sticker on the top of the casing. I’m going to give them a call in the morning and try and get details about the well. There are a lot of questions I don’t know the answer to, wells are new to me.
I certainly agree with you, there’s no way for a metal tank to create stone debris.

I’m afraid I’m not accurately describing what is coming up in the water. I tried posting a picture but I wasn’t able to (file was too large). I guess chips are not the right word to describe it, maybe very course sand like in consistency with a mostly granite like color. Very course stone dust?

 

[Reach4]

Make the picture a JPEG/JPG max 900 pixels each way, and 200 kB or less

 

[Sierra90]

One is of the toilet tank the other is a bucket from my outside hose faucet. I reduced the image size hopefully it’s still clear enough

 

[Valveman]

I’m pretty comfortable with plumbing, but unfortunately once it goes underground I’m not sure it’s something I can tackle. I think my well is rather deep, and wouldn’t know where to start with pulling the drop pipe out of the ground. Can it be done by hand?

I spoke with another well company this morning and they also seemed to think it’s the tank? This may get a little off topic and I thought of this after speaking with them, but If I were to replace the tank is going larger an option? Can you have too large a tank? If I did go bigger I’d have to relocate it from the crawl space to an indoor closet (due to height )next to the water heater, can that be done? From my research there’s mixed opinions.

If stuff like that can come from the tank, you certainly don't want a larger tank as that would just be a larger problem. 40 years ago I would have recommended the largest tank you could afford or get through the door. But that was 40 years ago and a lot has changed since then. The only purpose for a pressure tank is to limit the on/off cycling of the pump, which is bad for the pump, the pressure, and everything else. When you have a Cycle Stop Valve to limit the cycling, you don't need much of a tank. We could replace the tank and everything you have with a 4.5 gallon tank as comes in the PK1A kit.

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