Electrical Boiler

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Jadnashua

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A 1.5-2.5 ton inverter-drive ductless air source heat pump (mini-split) appropriately sized for the heating load would pay for itself in under 5 heating seasons even with nickel electricity (and that's at the full installed price of the heat pump not some delta between an electric boiler installation and a mini-split.) Going with an electric boiler and NOT a mini-split would only make sense if you were willing to pay for the extra comfort-cush of a radiant floor or something. A heat pump with some cheap resistance electric backup for the sub-zero peak loads makes more sense otherwise. It would have have half (or less) the operating cost of an electric boiler during mid-winter, and less than 1/3 the operating cost during the spring & fall. In a ~7000 heating degree day climate those are significant savings.

What I suggested back on page one...the advantage is not only cost, but for those few occasions (maybe more?) when the humidity levels get to you, you'd have a/c available, too.
 

DonL

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What I suggested back on page one...the advantage is not only cost, but for those few occasions (maybe more?) when the humidity levels get to you, you'd have a/c available, too.

That would make sense.

Lets not be too sensible...

You will take all the fun out of the forum. lol
 

Ballvalve

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Going with an electric boiler and NOT a mini-split would only make sense if you were willing to pay for the extra comfort-cush of a radiant floor or something

I cannot imagine life in cold, or any climate for that matter, without hot floors. Boot driers everywhere, dog warmers in all spots, all objects warmed in the rooms, and warm pants to put on in the morning by laying them on the floor. Lowered temps from that word radiant, and no dust devils made up of cat hair, cheetos, and the kid peeing into the floor vents, growing the next super-virus / allergen in the leaky duct work.

My uncle the HVAC guy, got cut everyday for 50 years. Then one day a cut from some projection inside an old mouldy duct gave him gaseous gangrene, and his arm looked like a telephone pole. They were just ready to get out the skil-saw when the old army doctor cut the arm open lengthwise, and pumped him full of Penicillin and sulfa drugs. Never went in an old duct again.

As to boilers, Having grown up in a dry cleaning and tailor shop, a BOILER was a big nasty scary beast that made STEAM. Next to it was a little thing called a water heater, and though it may have had micro steam bubbles forming at the heat source, it had better never BOIL the water. Semantics.
 
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technogirl74

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What I suggested back on page one...the advantage is not only cost, but for those few occasions (maybe more?) when the humidity levels get to you, you'd have a/c available, too.

Actually in the new house we plan on using radiant for the flooring.

Sometimes you gotta know the whole story, but there isnt eough space to write the whole story.


thanks JW and Speedy petey for the help.
We're gonna go with HVAC contractor and use the 2/0 and 125 amp breaker.
 

Ballvalve

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If that answered your question, you would have #6 or 4 wire and a half size WATER HEATER, so I do not understand that point.
 

technogirl74

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If that answered your question, you would have #6 or 4 wire and a half size WATER HEATER, so I do not understand that point.

Ballvalve,

I didnt ask if my boiler was oversized or if I should have used a water heater. My question was about the size of the wire and breaker.

I thank you for the response but JW and SpeedyPetey answered my question.

Thank you to all who responded!!
 

Dana

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Actually in the new house we plan on using radiant for the flooring.

Sometimes you gotta know the whole story, but there isnt eough space to write the whole story.


thanks JW and Speedy petey for the help.
We're gonna go with HVAC contractor and use the 2/0 and 125 amp breaker.

That's all the more reason to ditch the electric boiler and propane and think seriously about applying whatever you're spending on this (likely way oversized) electric boiler and applying toward an appropriately-sized air-to-hydronic heat pump (such as a Daikin Altherma) NOW, which will go in quicker than geothermal for half the money. If your existing heat emitters are cheap baseboard you may have to add thin low-temp panel radiators to get the heat into the rooms with the low-temp output of the Altherma, but slab radiant floors can be done relatively cheaply and are guaranteed low-temp.

It'll be more money than a condensing propane boiler (or "water heater" , in ballvalve's mistaken terms, since like the electric boiler it DOES boil real steam bubbles on the heat exchangers. :) ) but it'll cost less than half the cost of either resistance electricity OR propane to operate, and can provide both domestic hot water AND a significant amount of sensible cooling (but you'd still need a dehumidifier in summer, if that becomes your primary cooling method.)

If not an Altherma now, a mini-split sized to heat/cool the exisiting zone, and an Altherma later for the radiant floors would work, and provide latent-cooling (from the mini-split.)

Anything spent installing an electric boiler now is wasted, unless the both the boiler and the installation are free (or nearly-free). Even at the lowest electric rates in NY a mini-split solution would pay for itself relatively short years on operating costs (paying down the delta in upfront costs, if you apply what you would have spent on the electric boiler solution to the mini-split.)
 

Ballvalve

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Since she is unable to tell the "whole story", this has all been a bit of a folly. Good will to those nano- steam bubbles forming on the boiler nee water heater coils. 2/0 copper wire for a bungalo's warm floor? Enough to operate a few complete houses.

Perhaps the family has stock in the chinese company that was given the right to mine the worlds largest copper deposit that the AMERICAN geologists discovered in Afghanistan, and lost to a 30 million$ bribe given by the chinese to the ministry of mining. What happened to the 'spoils of war going to the victor'? we spent 940 billion on this idiotic war, and handed 1 TRILLION dollars worth of minerals over to china, Russia, and a rogues list of enemies. Please read this expose on the pathetic use of our soldiers: http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/06/14/china-us-afghanistan-mineral-mining/

Those who control the earths copper control the heat in New York.
 
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JWelectric

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As this thread seems to be doing nothing but insulting the original poster I see no need for it to remain open.

The original poster has gotten the answers they were looking for and there is no need to tell that person that they are making a bad discussion. They are getting what they want regardless if we agree or not.

To keep posting how much they have erred and posting political junk is gaining no ground but it could be insulting to some so I am closing this thread
 
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