DWV, am I creating unnecessary work????

[Reach4]

Per earlier in the thread, ~6.5" from horizontal drain center line to top of finish floor.

https://www.pexuniverse.com/uploads/docs/pdf/sc-887-g-series-specs.pdf has dimensions for one possible flange. That puts the gasket at
1.875 inches below the floor surface, but with some work, this can be extended to any length needed -- even several feet, but that would be unusual.

https://images.thdstatic.com/catalog/pdfImages/6e/6e4779c2-2a02-4f71-8f61-4f363327cdce.pdf is another being one of the Code Blue closet flanges, but the dimensions are not quite as helpful. This is the 4 x 4 version, but those also come in 3 and 2 inch height versions.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I think a floor drain located in a laundry room is not part of the bathroom Wayne . whether an inspector would allow this on that interpretation I don't know, but I think he might allow it due to difficulty and the idea of what's the difference which side of the wall the drain is on? but if your argument is that it complies as part of the bathroom group. would not be my defense because to me it clearly is not part of a bathroom group.
I think Robinhood should have worked out much and if pulling permits should be very close to being compliant, 100 miles from a homedepot even if permitted may not require inspection? I think you got no problems now with having a safe DWV plan . I didn't see a problem with depth for W/C with proper choice of fittings.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[wwhitney]

would not be my defense because to me it clearly is not part of a bathroom group.

Let me respond to that as a rhetorical exercise in code reading, which may be a tangent and not particularly helpful to the OP.

The way I read codes, the fact that the name includes the word "bathroom" doesn't mean anything. You just look at the definition and apply what the definition says. If the code writers went through and changed every use of the term "bathroom group" to "purple group," it would have no substantive change to the meaning of the code. So if the fixtures that compromise a bathroom group are all supposed to be in bathrooms, or maybe even the same bathroom, the definition of "bathroom group" would say so.

Let me also point out some potential undesired consequences of the interpretation that "bathroom group" fixtures have to be in bathrooms. The relevant UPC definitions are:

Bathroom. A room equipped with a shower, bathtub, or combination bath/shower.
Bathroom, Half. A room equipped with only a water closet and lavatory.

So now suppose you have a toilet room off the room with the shower and lav (the bathroom proper). That toilet is no longer in a bathroom; does that mean it can't be part of a bathroom group? Horizontal wet venting is restricted to bathroom groups, so does that mean the toilet can't be horizontal wet vented?

All of this is just to say that the broad reading where you just consider the types of fixtures involved, rather than wall locations, makes much more sense to me.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jeff H Young]

Let me respond to that as a rhetorical exercise in code reading, which may be a tangent and not particularly helpful to the OP.

The way I read codes, the fact that the name includes the word "bathroom" doesn't mean anything. You just look at the definition and apply what the definition says. If the code writers went through and changed every use of the term "bathroom group" to "purple group," it would have no substantive change to the meaning of the code. So if the fixtures that compromise a bathroom group are all supposed to be in bathrooms, or maybe even the same bathroom, the definition of "bathroom group" would say so.

Let me also point out some potential undesired consequences of the interpretation that "bathroom group" fixtures have to be in bathrooms. The relevant UPC definitions are:

Bathroom. A room equipped with a shower, bathtub, or combination bath/shower.
Bathroom, Half. A room equipped with only a water closet and lavatory.

So now suppose you have a toilet room off the room with the shower and lav (the bathroom proper). That toilet is no longer in a bathroom; does that mean it can't be part of a bathroom group? Horizontal wet venting is restricted to bathroom groups, so does that mean the toilet can't be horizontal wet vented?

All of this is just to say that the broad reading where you just consider the types of fixtures involved, rather than wall locations, makes much more sense to me.

Cheers, Wayne

I would argue a floor drain in the bathroom is legal . and expect a floor drain in laundry room might get me called out by inspector I would politely ask for leniency on a laundry floor drain be considered , I think it comes down to what's the difference if its part of laundry or a bathroom group or even 2 groups ?
Say you have a shower in one bathroom a tubshower in the next with a W/C and lav , your argument is that would be a bathroom group and not 2 groups. It might be not totally clear if they need be in same room.

 

[wwhitney]

Say you have a shower in one bathroom a tubshower in the next with a W/C and lav , your argument is that would be a bathroom group and not 2 groups.

Absolutely just one bathroom group. Unless you can show me some text in the UPC that says the bathroom group fixtures have to be in the same bathroom, I would say it's clear they don't. With back-to-back bathrooms, if for some reason you'd like to use one lav to wet vent the other bathroom's WC, no problem. What difference would it make? A lav's a lav.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[RLrobinhood]

Another question, in the red circle below: We discussed it being a wye rolled to a 45-degree angle. Could this also be a long radius combination Tee-Wye with a 45 fitting to go up the wall? Just curious for my knowledge.

Many thanks all! I got some concrete cut today and will post pictures after I get some pipe laid.

 

[Reach4]

Another question, in the red circle below: We discussed it being a wye rolled to a 45-degree angle. Could this also be a long radius combination Tee-Wye with a 45 fitting to go up the wall?

Yes!

 

[wwhitney]

We discussed it being a wye rolled to a 45-degree angle. Could this also be a long radius combination Tee-Wye with a 45 fitting to go up the wall? Just curious for my knowledge.

Yes, that is another good option. Since the wye + 60 has a shallower pitch between the two fittings than a combo + 45 would, I think the wye+60 is more likely to fit (i.e. not stick up out of the slab before making it under the wall plate). But if the combo +45 would fit, that's simpler and arguably better (avoids the short pipe segment at 60 degrees off plumb).

On the chance you prefer to do the circuit venting idea rather than the horizontal wet venting idea, for the former the fitting would need to be a 3x2x2 wye or combo, which they don't make, so you'd use a 3x3x2 with a 3x2 bushing in the inlet. For the horizontal wet venting, everything can be 2" at that point.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[RLrobinhood]

Yes, that is another good option. Since the wye + 60 has a shallower pitch between the two fittings than a combo + 45 would, I think the wye+60 is more likely to fit (i.e. not stick up out of the slab before making it under the wall plate). But if the combo +45 would fit, that's simpler and arguably better (avoids the short pipe segment at 60 degrees off plumb).

On the chance you prefer to do the circuit venting idea rather than the horizontal wet venting idea, for the former the fitting would need to be a 3x2x2 wye or combo, which they don't make, so you'd use a 3x3x2 with a 3x2 bushing in the inlet. For the horizontal wet venting, everything can be 2" at that point.

Cheers, Wayne

copy. Thanks all!

 

[wwhitney]

I think the wye+60 is more likely to fit (i.e. not stick up out of the slab before making it under the wall plate).

OK, so if the barrel of the fitting is parallel to the wall plate, and the combo is the same as a wye plus a 45, and ignoring small effects that may be occurring due to the radius of curvature of the fittings, the above is not true. Both the wye rolled 45 and the combo rolled 45 will put you on a direction that makes 1 unit of progress towards the wall as the vent rises 1 unit. It's just that with the wye the vent pipe also moves sqrt(2)=1.4 units to the left as it moves 1 unit up and 1 unit towards the wall. While the combo puts the vent on a path that doesn't move left-right.

The upshot is just make the choice based on what you need to happen left right. If you can arrange the shower trap so that you can hit a combo rolled 45 and have the vent in the stud bay you want, great. While if the combo would end up putting the vent in the doorway, use the wye instead. that will move the vent back to the left as it rises.

I suspect that with the combo you might need to use a LT90 between the trap outlet and the combo, while with a wye you'll have a better chance of only needing a 45.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[RLrobinhood]

Well, I think I have all the concrete cut out that I need to and I'm starting to connect the plumbing. Does the connection between the 4" black poly drain pipe (goes to the septic) and the 4" schedule 40 PVC need to be this fitting? Or should I use Fernco fitting that doesn't have the metal band, but is wider (thus grabbing onto more pipe)? This fitting is in the dirt below the concrete slab.

All my pipe thus far is 1/4" drop per foot. Many thanks.

 

[wwhitney]

I'm not familiar with "black poly drain pipe" so I'm not sure on the proper sizing for rubber couplings connecting to it.

As to the rubber coupling, the ~2" long shielded style shown is only listed for use above ground (to ASTM C1460). Below ground you need the ~4" long style (listed to ASTM C1173), which are are available unshielded with 2 clamps, or shielded with 4 clamps (the shield only extending as far as the inner two clamps). I'm not sure when it's appropriate to use the shielded variety, I would think that the unshielded variety would be suitable for use when the coupling is full supported by the fill and there's no reason to expect differential settlement or other forces on the joint.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[RLrobinhood]

Thanks Wayne. You are a wealth of knowledge. I need to go grab one. I really appreciate you providing references. Good reading. I couldn't find anything in code, but the ASTM must be something different?

 

[wwhitney]

https://up.codes/viewer/montana/upc-2018/chapter/7/sanitary-drainage#705.10

Cheers, Wayne

 

[James Henry]

How else do you vent the floor drain? [Straightforward, not rhetorical, question; I don't know much about venting floor drains.]

The definition of a bathroom group in the UPC includes an "emergency floor drain" without any explicit requirement that the floor drain be in a bathroom: "Bathroom Group. Any combination of fixtures, not to exceed one water closet, two lavatories, either one bathtub or one combination bath/shower, and one shower, and may include a bidet and an emergency floor drain."

https://up.codes/viewer/montana/upc-2018/chapter/2/definitions#bathroom_group

Cheers, Wayne

Floor drains are designated as "combination waste and vent" fixtures, they do not require an individual vent. And as you said, a floor drain is considered part of a bathroom group.

 

[RLrobinhood]

I'm pooped, lol. But feel good with what I got accomplished today.

I put the wye much lower than previously so I could plumb the laundry stack like in post number #37 on page two above. You can see i just have some fittings laid in there with tape to keep sewer gasses out and allow the family to take a shower tonight. I'll get them squared away tomorrow. Life is good.

Feel free to comment and critique. Thanks all!!

 

[RLrobinhood]

I made some decent progress today. One thing I'm concerned about is the floor drain quality. The grate on it looks fairly weak and I suspect it will break out sooner or later. But, I like the fact that is has an integral trap and cleanout. Despite this, I think I want something of a little more quality. The one I have is this one https://www.doitbest.com/shop/plumb...oor-drain/pvc-trap-and-floor-drain?SKU=435910

Do you have any other suggestions? Above the concrete will be a snap-lock style flooring. So probably 1/4" to 3/8" thick flooring.

Also, I was thinking about adding a "trap guard" since this floor drain will never be used unless something floods (hope not). Do you have a recommended guard?

As always, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!