DWV, am I creating unnecessary work????

[Jeff H Young]

why would you need to change the 2 inch to 3 inch robin hood? this is Montana ? UPC Code? I think 8 fixture units you have 5 I counting right a lav 1 k/s 2 , and washer 2 equal 5 units

 

[Jeff H Young]

I been running 2 inch always vertical or horizontal for tubs since starting but had to scratch head to remember if it was required or not I think a change was made many years ago 25 at least years

 

[Sponsor]

 

[RLrobinhood]

Like what Reach4 said, and you don't need to go as big on the pipe sizes. Blue is 1-1/2" (but you can use 2" if you prefer for some reason). The length of the laundry standpipe trap arm can be anywhere from 4" to 60" (from the trap outlet to the san-tee), I'm not trying to show a particular length, just the connectivity.

Cheers, Wayne

View attachment 78441

Perfect. Thanks Reach4 and wwhitney!!

 

[RLrobinhood]

why would you need to change the 2 inch to 3 inch robin hood? this is Montana ? upc Code? I think 8 fixture units you have 5 I counting right a lav 1 k/s 2 , and washer 2 equal 5 units

You are correct. Those are the only fixtures draining into that. That makes me happy that I can keep it 2". Thanks.

 

[RLrobinhood]

Would someone be able to shoot me a link to the type of "water closet bend" I should be using? We're kinda remote and I had to drive 100 miles each way tonight to a Home Depot to get most of these fittings. They only had two types and I'm not really sure which one I should use or what each end of the water closet bend should be sized and fit into or on to? I'm not really sure they were even the correct fittings. They seemed a little too small.

Also, I had a question about fittings for the connected laundry room wall vent system. Where the vents go up and connect to each other on the horizontal run, what fitting do I use for this? In this situation can a SanTee be used? Even though its in a horizontal position?

Thanks again.

 

[wwhitney]

For a plastic closet bend, you can use basically any 90 other than a vent 90. A 3" quarter bend is OK, or a 3" x 4" reducing closet bend, or a LT90 if you need extra height.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jeff H Young]

I believe a laundry floor drain can't be horizontal wet vented and is not part of a bathroom group . not sure if If I'm reading the plan correctly

 

[wwhitney]

I belive a laundry floor drain cant be horizontal wet vented and is not part of a bathroom group . not sure if If Im reading the plan correctly

How else do you vent the floor drain? [Straightforward, not rhetorical, question; I don't know much about venting floor drains.]

The definition of a bathroom group in the UPC includes an "emergency floor drain" without any explicit requirement that the floor drain be in a bathroom: "Bathroom Group. Any combination of fixtures, not to exceed one water closet, two lavatories, either one bathtub or one combination bath/shower, and one shower, and may include a bidet and an emergency floor drain."

https://up.codes/viewer/montana/upc-2018/chapter/2/definitions#bathroom_group

Cheers, Wayne

 

[RLrobinhood]

What fitting should I use in the red circle? Is a horizontal SanT acceptable? Many thanks!

 

[wwhitney]

Yes, for connecting vents only, no drainage, and when 6" above the flood rim, you can use basically anything. A san-tee would be the typical choice.

For vents that are below the elevation of the flood rim, fitting selection should be the same as if they were drains. I.e. in the event of a backup that rises up to the flood rim, the water should drain out of the vent just like a drain, when the backup is cleared.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jeff H Young]

How else do you vent the floor drain? [Straightforward, not rhetorical, question; I don't know much about venting floor drains.]

The definition of a bathroom group in the UPC includes an "emergency floor drain" without any explicit requirement that the floor drain be in a bathroom: "Bathroom Group. Any combination of fixtures, not to exceed one water closet, two lavatories, either one bathtub or one combination bath/shower, and one shower, and may include a bidet and an emergency floor drain."

https://up.codes/viewer/montana/upc-2018/chapter/2/definitions#bathroom_group

Cheers, Wayne

floor drains are typically vented just like a shower Wayne, I've never seen one horizontal wet vented but I've yet to see much of that venting anyway .
I think it would be function fine but don't think a floor drain in a laundry room would meet the definition of a bathroom group and might be reason for fail.
so in a shallow depth situation a combi on back for vent, rolling up a flat vent with a wye might or might not pass , up to inspector .

 

[wwhitney]

So for the OP, what's to the right of your picture of the laundry room? Is there another wall the 4" building drain passes under that's within 5' of the floor drain location (or of an alternate acceptable floor drain location)?

If so, you have the option to dry vent the floor drain with a vent in that wall. Or you could dry vent the floor drain by sending it to the laundry/bathroom wall, pull a vent off there, and then doing a 180 to join your building drain. Dry venting the floor drain avoids the question of whether or not a floor drain that is part of a bathroom group has to actually be in the bathroom (which the UPC is silent on, as far as I can see, so it is open to interpretation).

One advantage of dry venting the floor drain is that your 3" WC drain the 2" shower drain could join within the footprint of the bathroom, so you don't have as many pipes emerging under the wall into the laundry area. The disadvantage is having to deal with another dry vent and getting to a place it can join an existing dry vent.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

floor drains are typically vented just like a shower

Sure, but showers are typically not 10' x 10', so there is usually a wall within 5' for a dry vent takeoff within the allowable trap arm length. While a floor drain could easily be more than 5' (or more 6', for a 3" floor drain) from any wall.

I guess that's what circuit venting is for. I should study that section more carefully, it's possible the shower, WC, and floor drain would qualify as a circuit vented system, and then maybe the WC wouldn't have to be last on the circuit vent? I'll research that more later.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

Would someone be able to shoot me a link to the type of "water closet bend" I should be using? We're kinda remote and I had to drive 100 miles each way tonight to a Home Depot to get most of these fittings. They only had two types and I'm not really sure which one I should use or what each end of the water closet bend should be sized and fit into or on to? I'm not really sure they were even the correct fittings. They seemed a little too small.

This one has a hub on top:

I would consider a 4 inch outside compression flange if you want an easy do-over. Glue flanges are cheaper and are really good for the experienced people who get things right the first time.

Some of the things discussed on https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/4-x3-closet-elbow-too-low-on-remodel.79072/ may be useful.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Charlot...-x-Hub-Elbow-Fitting-PVC003290600HD/203393625

Ihttps://www.homedepot.com/p/Charlotte-Pipe-3-in-x-4-in-PVC-DWV-90-Degree-Closet-Bend-H-x-S-Elbow-Fitting-PVC003300600HD/203393631 is the one with the spigot top (same size as 4 inch schedule 40 pipe).

 

[RLrobinhood]

So for the OP, what's to the right of your picture of the laundry room? Is there another wall the 4" building drain passes under that's within 5' of the floor drain location (or of an alternate acceptable floor drain location)?

If so, you have the option to dry vent the floor drain with a vent in that wall. Or you could dry vent the floor drain by sending it to the laundry/bathroom wall, pull a vent off there, and then doing a 180 to join your building drain. Dry venting the floor drain avoids the question of whether or not a floor drain that is part of a bathroom group has to actually be in the bathroom (which the UPC is silent on, as far as I can see, so it is open to interpretation).

One advantage of dry venting the floor drain is that your 3" WC drain the 2" shower drain could join within the footprint of the bathroom, so you don't have as many pipes emerging under the wall into the laundry area. The disadvantage is having to deal with another dry vent and getting to a place it can join an existing dry vent.

Cheers, Wayne

Unfortunately, there will not be an easy way to dry vent the floor drain. The main sewer line runs right through the center of a door which is the only wall that I could vent from without doing a 180. And since it runs right through the center of the door, I would have to cut massive amounts of concrete out to lay the plumbing in.

From what I researched, I do think it would fall under circuit venting. But not sure.

 

[RLrobinhood]

This one has a hub on top:

I would consider a 4 inch outside compression flange if you want an easy do-over. Glue flanges are cheaper and are really good for the experienced people who get things right the first time.

Some of the things discussed on https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/4-x3-closet-elbow-too-low-on-remodel.79072/ may be useful.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Charlot...-x-Hub-Elbow-Fitting-PVC003290600HD/203393625

Ihttps://www.homedepot.com/p/Charlotte-Pipe-3-in-x-4-in-PVC-DWV-90-Degree-Closet-Bend-H-x-S-Elbow-Fitting-PVC003300600HD/203393631 is the one with the spigot top (same size as 4 inch schedule 40 pipe).

I can go either way on these. Which is the preferred fitting? Hub x hub or hub x spigot.

Again, many thanks guys. I'm going to cut more concrete tomorrow. An then later in the week start putting this together. I'll keep you posted with pics!

 

[Jeff H Young]

Hadn't checked into circuit venting

 

[wwhitney]

I guess that's what circuit venting is for. I should study that section more carefully, it's possible the shower, WC, and floor drain would qualify as a circuit vented system, and then maybe the WC wouldn't have to be last on the circuit vent? I'll research that more later.

So, I still think that nothing requires the "emergency floor drain" that's part of a bathroom group to be in the same room as the shower or WC, so my proposed layout is UPC compliant. "Bathroom group" is just defined as a certain set of fixtures, with no mention of where the walls around them are located. And the DWV system performance doesn't depend on wall location, just pipe geometry and fixture types.

As to circuit venting, the main extra requirement is that "The entire length of the vented section of the horizontal branch drain shall be sized for the total drainage discharge to the branch." https://up.codes/viewer/montana/upc-2018/chapter/9/vents#911.3 The other extra requirement is that the horizontal branch drain has to have a slope between 1/4" per foot (for 3" and smaller) and 1" per foot.

So if the drain were upsized to 3" starting at the vent takeoff in the wall next to the shower, then it would qualify as a circuit vent. The WC no longer has to be last, so it could join the tub drain in the footprint of the bathroom, with just one drain proceeding to pick up the floor drain. The horizontal branch drain still has to be kept separate from the building drain that receives the 3" stack (with drainage from a higher story) until after the circuit vent ends (after the floor drain). But it could receive the drainage from other separately vented fixtures on the same floor, i.e. the lav and/or the washing machine, if that were desirable for some reason.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

I can go either way on these. Which is the preferred fitting? Hub x hub or hub x spigot.

I think it depends on how much rise to the toilet. If the bend is 12 inches below the toilet, hub is the obvious choice. If the bend is up higher then I would opt for the spigot. And because I am not practiced with gluing, I would opt for an outside (such as Code Blue) or inside compression toilet flange, or PushTite, which is similar to inside compression.

And while I would prefer a stainless steel ring, with a compression toilet flange, if a plastic ring fails, you can fairly easily replace the flange. Compression makes for easier do-overs.

 

[wwhitney]

I think it depends on how much rise to the toilet.

Per earlier in the thread, ~6.5" from horizontal drain center line to top of finish floor.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/dwv-am-i-creating-unnecessary-work.96972/#post-697705

Cheers, Wayne