Dug well pump questions

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by MikeSS, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,459
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The pressure tank has nothing to do with it. I have seen pumps sit in storage a lot longer than 8 years and still be fine. It should stop instantly when you turn it off. If it free wheels any after you turn it off, it still has not picked up a prime. Sometimes priming can be a ......., that is one reason I prefer subs when possible.
  2. craigpump

    craigpump Member

    Messages:
    939
    Location:
    ct
    Suction leak or pump housing not completely full.
  3. MikeSS

    MikeSS New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
  4. MikeSS

    MikeSS New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Do "seals" of some kind dry out and shrink after setting some (about 8 I think) years in a hot garage?

    After reading about tanks and bladders (I'd forgotten what I already once learned) I realized I'd manually put about 35 lbs. of air pressure in the tank a couple months ago. Ah ha, that must be the problem and released all the air except for 5-10 lbs. Pump still does the same thing - obviously not drawing water. I know the danger of leaks in the downpipe so before I write off the pump (there's no parts available for these pumps) I'll put a short positively leak-less line into a bucket and see if it draws water from that. If it's dry seals maybe just running some water through it will get it going if it'll draw anything at all.

    If it won't draw from a bucket after being primed, should this pump be written off or am I not trying something I should be trying?

    There's a new 1/2 horse TEEL Jetpump 3P684C on Craigslist but it's a discontinued model so it too may have been sitting on a shelf for a long time.

    Mike
  5. MikeSS

    MikeSS New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Thanks guys. I went ahead and bought the TEEL for $100. Seller said it's unused but it's so old I can't find anything on the model number anywhere except on Grainger where it says that it's been discontinued. I can't mind an owner's manual anywhere on the internet, nor even any mention of the Model, which is 3P684C. It has a 1/2 HP motor made by Dayton in the USA (that really shows how old it is. I'm seeing that current Daytons are made in China.) It's not wired but is set up for 230 volts so I'll wire it for that. It can go 115V if re-wired in the pressure switch housing but I do have a 230 volt outlet so I guess 'll use that - I would think it'll be easier on the motor if it doesn't have to struggle for juice? Would 115V do just as well?

    I've disconnected the Harbor Freight pump and put it on a table and will see if I can get it to suck water out of a bucket with a direct, no-possible-leak line. It's possible I guess in my connections using Red Hot Blue Glue on the 1 1/4 PVC downtube that I've got a vacuum leak somewhere.

    As for priming, I've done it a couple ways. One was to connect a water hose directly onto the outlet gatevalve and turned it on until water was squirting out the prime hole. I've also dribbled a small stream of water into the prime hole as the pump is running just to make sure it is full of water in the pump housing. Still nothing out the outlet.

    I'll play with it using a short run into a bucket being careful to make sure the pump housing is full of water. I guess this will be a test of the impeller to see if it's sucking water.

    To test my downtube for leaks I'll be hooking up the TEEL and see if it draws water. One test or another I should be able to figure out the problem. This well stuff is tricky eh?.

    Mike
  6. MikeSS

    MikeSS New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
  7. MikeSS

    MikeSS New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I took my Harbor Freight 3/4 HP Shallow Well Pump to a nearby lake this morning and tossed it in and it sank like a rock! Although it is not advertised as such, it definitely is a submersible pump.
    Just kidding. I haven't given up on this pump yet.
    Mike
  8. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,459
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Now that's funny. I don't care who you are!
  9. MikeSS

    MikeSS New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
  10. MikeSS

    MikeSS New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I hooked up the half hp TEEL pump to the same downpipe as I had the Harbor Freight pump hooked to and it pumps really well. It's wired 230 with a hose bib coming off the outlet piping I've cooked up. I put a brass nipple into the 3/4" outlet and a T on that with the hose bib on the horizontal nipple and a "bell reducer" I think it's called topping it off. It's a funnel shaped piece of galvanized pipe that I thought would be useful for priming but looks like priming isn't a problem with this pump. I did prime it initially but have only had to prime it that one time. Heck, it might have pumped even without me priming it.

    I ran it for two hours last night watering things with a 100 foot Costco hose with a fireman's type nozzle on the end. When I shut the nozzle the pump turns off. Neato pump! The motor runs pretty warm but it's rated continuous duty so I would hope that is normal temp. I have a strong stream of water out the end of the hose - I'm guessing 20 GPH initially then less as it draws the water down. It's smelly water - appears clear but smells like sulfur or decaying things under the ground. It's ugly down there. Maybe after I've cycled the well a few times the smell will go away. It's been sitting many years without being used. I'm thinking recovery time will be faster and with more volume as the level of water gets drawn down over and over. I guess I pumped close to 2000 gallons last night and am doing the same tonight.

    I can see myself forgetting that I've got the pump going and ruining this great pump by letting the water level drop below my intake. Can anyone suggest a deadman's switch setup that would automatically shut the pump down if it started sucking air? Something that would work with my simple hose set-up?

    Mike
  11. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,228
    Location:
    IL
    One way would be to use a Pressure switch with Low Pressure Cutoff. If the pressure drops to maybe 20 PSI, the pump would have to be manually restarted at the pressure switch.

    Another is to use a Pump Saver-like device that detects the current drop.
  12. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,971
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    If the pump deadheads or loses prime while topping up the tank after you shut off the hose, the low pressure cutoff won't save the pump. It will run until it melts down.
  13. MikeSS

    MikeSS New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I don't have a tank. I turn the pump on to get water through my hose and turn the pump off when I'm done. No tank. I don't see any reason for a tank - I assume you mean bladder tank. I do intend to put in some elevated water storage tanks (330 gallon water totes connected together) for irrigation

    I'll look into the pressure switch idea and the low current sensor - I assume the second device would be installed somewhere between the pressure switch and the breaker and when the pump isn't drawing normal amperage due to lack of water, it would disconnect the circuit. That sounds neat. I'll try and find one of these and also look into finding a pressure switch with a cut-off function.

    Thanks for the responses.

    BTW, I can't get the Harbor Freight pump to do anything except make some noise when I turn it on. It sounds like the impeller is turning and I've primed the heck out of it over and over but the best it will do is spit the prime out of the prime inlet and the outlet hole. Once the prime is gone it just sits there and makes noise but won't suck anything. It sat in the garage for eight years or so so I think that has something to do with it. I'd like to use it as a booster pump and even though it's eight or nine years old it's never been used so I keep thinking it should work . . . but it don't.
  14. craigpump

    craigpump Member

    Messages:
    939
    Location:
    ct
    "I keep thinking it should work but it don't."

    That's a sentiment held by a lot of people who have bought stuff at HF....
  15. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,971
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Then you don't want a switch with a low cut-off as it will trip off every time the pump is shut off.
  16. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,459
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    This will work with or without a pressure switch.

    [​IMG]
  17. MikeSS

    MikeSS New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Many of the reviews on these pumps on the HF site report they do work within their limitations. I think mine has got some dried-out seals or something like that which won't allow it to build pressure.
  18. MikeSS

    MikeSS New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    This looks like just the ticket. It does add some complexity to the system and my brain is pretty simple so I'll need to think about this.

    Meanwhile, my Furnas 30/50 has a screw that will allow me to adjust the cut in and cut out pressures, plus another screw that will adjust the differential. I'll upload the data sheet with this post. I hesitate to mess with it since it seems to be working fine with my hose with the nozzle shut-off, with the pressure switch at current settings. Is there any reason to adjust these settings with my current simple set-up?

    Also, I'm using the breaker for this circuit as an on/off switch for the pump. I can wire in a switch but considering how long it's taking me to get things done, is there anything wrong with using the breaker as a switch for the time being?

    Thanks.

    Oops. The 2-page pdf file is too large for the system to accept. I'm sure this Furnas 69ES pressure switch is pretty standard in regard to its adjustments.

    ALSO: How hot are pump motors supposed to run? I'll get a laser thermometer on it to get a reading but it's not with me just now. After half an hour of continuous running I can't hold my hand on the motor shroud for more than two seconds. This 1/2 HP Dayton motor is rated for continuous duty but it's over 90 degrees daytime temperatures lately and I'm wondering if I should be running the motor for an hour or more at a time? With a bladder tank the pump would cycle on and off and maybe not run so hot . . . but the cycling on and off isn't that great for it either is it? That's supposedly what kills the Harbor Freight pumps (when they work).

    *****************
    I hesitate to mess with it since it seems to be working fine with my hose with the nozzle shut-off, with the pressure switch at current settings.

    I take that back. Tonight when I shut off the nozzle I blew the hose off the hose bib mounted on the pump outlet. I'll put a better bib with more (and newer) threads on tomorrow but this was an event telling me that if I can reduce pressure inside the hose by adjusting the settings on the pressure switch, I ought to. Before I start playing around with the settings, could someone advise me whether I'll accomplish anything by adjusting the cut-in/cut-off settings downward? What about the differential setting - how does that fit in to what I need to do, if at all? Valveman has pointed out in other threads that pump behavior is often the reverse of how one thinks they work so I'd appreciate some feedback on this before I start tampering with the pressure switch adjustments.

    Here's a link to my pressure switch data:

    http://www.hubbell-icd.com/icd/pressure/files/4269ES.pdf
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  19. MikeSS

    MikeSS New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Thanks.
  20. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,459
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    If you don't have a pressure tank, don't use a pressure switch either. Just turn the pump on and off with the breaker. That pressure switch can bounce without a tank and cause water hammer that will blow off a hose bib.
Similar Threads: pump questions
Forum Title Date
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog Shallow Well Pump Brand And contruction questions Mar 3, 2014
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog Well pump questions and chlorination levels Sep 16, 2013
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog Sump pump questions - battery/check-valve/pumps Apr 27, 2013
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog questions about unloading a pump Feb 17, 2013
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog newbie asking questions about hand pump Dec 19, 2012

Share This Page