Different pump.

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by kfran1234, Apr 20, 2006.

  1. kfran1234

    kfran1234 New Member

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    Have a shallow well with 1" suction line. Too small for my pump which has a 1 1/2" inlet. I found a Dayton D2803 cast iron 1 HP pump with 1" inlet and outlet. Couldn't find a spec for gpm on it, but wondering if that might do the trick for a sprinkler system. Thanks.
  2. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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  3. kfran1234

    kfran1234 New Member

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    Thanks Bob. That's where I saw it. Only one I've seen with the 1" inlet. I have a flotec 1 1/2 HP sprinkler pump at the moment and am only getting like 20 psi.
  4. Pumpman

    Pumpman Pump Sales

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    I'd be pretty hesitant to make that call without knowing what the demand of the sprinkler system is.
    Ron
  5. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    "I'd be pretty hesitant to make that call without knowing what the demand of the sprinkler system is."

    The pump will work and presumably deliver the specified performance. The sprinkler has to be adjusted to the pump.

    Many "sprinkler" pumps are small centrifugals that deliver a lot of flow but don't deliver a lot of pressure. They are usually set up to deliver water to the sprinkler system without maintaining pressure.

    Whenever someone wants to use an existing pump, the FIRST thing they should do is find the model and determine the performance characteristics specified by the manufacturer. Just knowing the horsepower and pipe size doesn't give you the information you need to put it into a working system.

    The SECOND thing to do is to measure the performance (GPM at pressure, at suction depth) to see if it matches the specifications. That will tell them if the pump is working as it should or if it needs maintenance.

    The THIRD thing to do is design the water demand system to match the operating point of the pump. The flow must be restricted at the sprinkler to allow the pump to deliver enough pressure to achieve the required sprinkler range.
  6. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

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    I hope your not trying to explain that to Ron are you Bob?

    bob...
  7. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    It was a general comment to those who have questions. There are many questions where there is too little information to give the best answer. Ron on track and I was trying to pass on information to others who might have questions. I can see how it would be offensive and I apologize.
  8. kfran1234

    kfran1234 New Member

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    I know I didn't supply a lot of info. Main thing for me is finding the best solution around the fact that the suction line is only 1".
  9. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

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    The only answer is to change it to a larger pipe. Buying a pump with a smaller suction port is not going to give you more water. It will probably give less. Like Bob said, you need to know what your sprinklers require, then see if a pump hooked up to 1" pipe would be enough water to operate them properly.

    In my experience with homeowners and sprinklers, they always put the cart before the horse. The pump, well and sprinkler system have to match. So the first thing is to find out how much water your pump will produce at 30 lbs. or higher. Then design your system around that number of gallons. In your case there is really no other way. Running water open discharge into a 5 gallon bucket with a ball valve in the 1" (important to keep it 1") line so you can valve the discharge up to 30 psi. Then time the filling of the bucket and see how many gallons @ 30 psi. you have to work with.

    bob...
  10. Pumpman

    Pumpman Pump Sales

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    Location:
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    I sort of surmised than kfran1234 already had a sprinkler system in place, since they had tried a sprinkler pump already. Hence, my comment.
    Of course the Dayton 2803 would work for a sprinkler system, as long as the system is designed around the pump.
    If the system was designed with the capacity of the sprinkler pump in mind, the Dayton will fall far short of that.
    Ron
  11. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    I Agree - Bigger Pipe

    The problem with small suction pipe is that it is equivalent to making your well deeper. Pulling 20 GPM through 60 ft of 1" pipe gives you 15 ft additional suction loss. Add that to the depth to water in the well and you see that you could have the biggest pump in the world and would never get 20 GPM.

    If you put in a bigger pipe, you might as well lay 2" from the well to the house.

    Since this is irrigation, the easiest thing you could do would be to put that 1 1/2 HP pump on a plank, carry it over to the well, drop a piece of 2" PVC down the well with one of those 2" plastic foot valves, elbow it at 2", and reduce to 1 1/2 right at the pump. Be sure that you use Schedule 40 fittings; NOT DWV.

    You can get an inexpensive plastic union at HD to make it easy to take apart in the fall. Make sure you have a good way to prime the pump, with a tee and valve on the outlet. I have seen people put the pump in a little "dog house" if you don't want to look at the pump. It is easy to run a piece of 12/2 UF underground; assume you are using 230 Volts on the pump.

    But I would do that only after finding the model number of the pump and finding that it will produce the pressure and flow that you need.

    If you decide to get a new pump and the well will accept it, a low-head submersible will do a great job, probably at less horsepower than the pump you have and certainly less power than a jet pump with equivalent flow. For example, a 3/4 HP Goulds 18GS07 will give you 25 GPM at just under 40 psi and you could get a 1 HP pump if you want more pressure. You will not find a low head submersible at a big box store. You need to get the pump head matched to the motor. Another advantage of the submersible is that it will put 25 GPM through 60 ft of 1" discharge pipe with about 10 psi of pressure loss; not desirable but it will work.

    You can also find a submersible at Grainger. Check out the 1 HP Stock No 4TB70 which will give you 25 GPM at 40 psi.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2006
  12. kfran1234

    kfran1234 New Member

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    Let me add this info. When I take the cap off the suction pipe in the basement, I get water flowing out, so the suction pipe in the basement must be lower than where it enters the well right? Does this improve my situation much? Thanks again for the advice.
  13. kfran1234

    kfran1234 New Member

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    Also, sprinkler system is not yet in place, so designing it around my pump situation wouldn't be a problem as long as I can get a pump that will give me decent performance.. I thought about placing the pump at the well, but I've got a driveway in the way.
  14. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

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    4,540
    Location:
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    Refer back to the post about the 5 gallon bucket test.

    bob...
  15. kfran1234

    kfran1234 New Member

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    9
    I don't have a pump yet though. I tried the Flotec 1 1/2 hp sprinkler pump, but the pump was trying to pull water through the 1" line with a 1 1/2" inlet on the pump. I could only get 20 psi and the pump started getting noisy presumably because it couldn't get enough water into it. I'm considering buying a pump with a 1" inlet and outlet, but trying to get an idea how well that will work. The well is about 10'-15' deep and about 60' away from the pump. The suction line is in the basement and I figure it's about even with the top of the current water level in the well.
  16. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    A 20 GPM low-head submersible in the well will pump all the water your 1" pipe will handle. You will need to run a 12/2 UF at 230 volts to the pump.

    Since you don't have either the sprinkler system or pump yet, you might consider connecting the sprinkler system at the well location and just run the 1" to the tank in the basement. Then most of the flow will go to your sprinkler system when the pump is running and the 1" pipe won't be a constriction.

    If you are going to the trouble of installing a sprinkler system and buying a pump for it, then finding a way to get a 12/2 230 volt line to the pump should be a small part of the job.

    If a 10 GPM pump will meet your needs, (or, more likely, will pump the well dry) then the easiest solution is to put the smaller pump in the basement. If 10 GPM won't meet your needs, then the only solutions are to put the pump is the well or put in a larger pipe.

    Like the man at the fair with the Kewpie dolls says, "You pay your money and take your choice."
  17. kfran1234

    kfran1234 New Member

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    Thanks Bob. By the way, I'm in NH too. Danville. Anyway, the well is about 2' in diameter. If I use a submersible, how do I stabilize it? Can it just hang down there?
  18. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    Yes, you can just hang it fom the pipe or from a safety rope. You would usually hang it near the bottom of the well.

    Check your private messages.
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