Convert bladder tank to hydro-pneumatic?

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by BDrivenByDemons, May 13, 2014.

  1. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
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    IL
    You got 7 years out of your first air cell.

    However I am eager to hear how the experiment works.
     
  2. craigpump

    craigpump Well-Known Member

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    Apr 12, 2012
    Occupation:
    Self employed water system tech
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    Connecticut
    Good to see that Sta Rite still hasn't figured out how to make a tank.
     
  3. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

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    Information Technology
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    NW Ontario, Canada
    The air bag design means that the bag needs to shrink and stretch on every pump cycle, which is why they are made so thin. The diaphragm design doesn't need to stretch, only fold back and forth like turning a sock inside out.

    Bladder tanks should not be used between a micronizer and the iron filter. The precipitated iron builds up between the bag and the tank walls. The air that the micronizer entrains, collects at the top of the tank and eventually burps through at the bottom of the pump cycle. This happens in larger quantity when draw exceeds the fill rate imposed by the micronizer and pressure drops well below the cut-in. If this happens during backwash, the air can lift the media out of the iron filter if it has no top basket.

    In the OP's case, there is a second tank with AVC after the bladder tank so the air burping would not be an issue as long as the AVC keeps working. The AVC is a maintenance item and sooner or later, they will quit working.
     
  4. craigpump

    craigpump Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Self employed water system tech
    Location:
    Connecticut
    LOL I know why & how they function, or supposed to function. Real world experience is that after a few years Sta Rite tanks make great garbage cans.
     
  5. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Location:
    IL
    Well, wife and kids were at school and work and I had a day off so I decided it would be a good day to try and destroy something... Here's some pics...




    Top of my tank. Those bolts with that huge opening made things super easy.

    [​IMG]



    The bladder came right out once I let the pump squeeze all the air/water out of it by removing the schrader valve tip. Decided to pump it up a little once removed to see if she'd hold air. Things looked promising!

    [​IMG]


    Nope :( big gash at the bottom of the air cell

    [​IMG]


    Quick peek in the top of the tank. I was expecting 3" of iron sediment sitting on the bottom since I have that air injector in-line before this tank. Not bad at all, only a slight coating. I ran down to ace and threw in a cup or so of iron out before I threw it all back together. Figured it wouldn't hurt.

    [​IMG]


    And finally my custom air bladder modification.

    [​IMG]


    So before I bolted the top back on I turned on the pump and got about 3" of water in the bottom of the tank. Then I threw the cup of iron out in and sealed her up. Pumped in 38psi since my cut-in is 40. It seemed like it took forever to get all that air in there which I was happy about knowing maybe I finally had a good air charge. It held at 38 for a few minutes so I fired up the pump and let it cycle normally. I also let it sit for a while to let the iron out do its job then turned on some faucets to transfer that iron-out water over to my contact tank. I don't even know if that was needed but I figured wtf. Finally I set the air injector to cut out at about 50psi so I'm getting 1/2 an air charge per pump cycle which I HOPE will maintain the air needed in the tank. I didn't hear any burping of air when a ran the tank down but i'm sure that will change as it runs more. I'll update this in a few weeks to let you all know how it's working.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
  6. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

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    Rocket Scientist
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    Houston, TX
    Nice Pictures, Thanks for your post.

    Looks like a piece of Junk to me.

    Un Believable they sell that crap.
     
  7. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Occupation:
    Information Technology
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    In the absence of an AVC the air will eventually burp forward and accumulate at the top of the iron filter media tank. Usually the backwash will purge the air before any of it burps forward into the house plumbing.
     
  8. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Location:
    IL
    That bladder is a huge p.o.s. Not durable at all as you can see. It has a somewhat rigid property. Not soft and flexible like you would imagine.
     
  9. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Joined:
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    I have a second contact tank right after this one with an air vent so its all good. Everything working fine so far.
     
  10. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Occupation:
    Rocket Scientist
    Location:
    Houston, TX

    Looks like what you find inside of a wine Box.

    It was designed by Wine-O's


    Nice work, on your part. Thanks for sharing.
     
  11. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Location:
    IL
    Well, this setup is still working great. The tank still has great pressure and the air bleed takes care of excess air perfectly. Just wanted to update this in case someone wanted to try it for themselves.
     
  12. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
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    Haven't been here in a while. Figured I'd bump this and let anyone interested know this setup is still working great. 2 1/2 years and no problems at all.
     
  13. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    I am glad to hear it is successful for you. Do you know how much iron remains after this system?
     
  14. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Location:
    IL
    I've never tested the water after the iron removal tank but I can tell you the input pipes to the softener installed right after the iron removal tank are pristine. If you look at the input to the iron remover it's full of iron. If it's not removing 100% of the iron it's definitely removing 99%. ;)
     
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