Convert bladder tank to hydro-pneumatic?

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by BDrivenByDemons, May 13, 2014.

  1. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    IL
    Have had some low pressure problems lately and I just KNEW that damn air-cell in my tank had a leak. I looked the tank up online and it was surprisingly easy to replace so I decided to check it out today. Couldn't pull it out cause it was full of water. So I put it all back together and pulled the core from the schrader and turned the pump on for a few seconds to squeeze it from the inside. Once my fountain of water from the schrader stopped I drained the tank and filled it with 38PSI (I'm running 40/60). Now I know this won't last.... or will it??? I'm using one of those venturi type air injectors before this tank for my iron remover. This main tank feeds a second contact tank with an air-bleed on top. Since I'm constantly injecting air into my water before the main tank can I just cut that bladder off right below the schrader and use it hydro-pneumatic style? Seems to me it would work fine as long as I get a good initial air charge at the start. I can't even find a replacement air cell and have been kicking around a CSV setup for a while now anyway and hate to buy a new tank. I can't really see any reason it wouldn't work.
  2. craigpump

    craigpump Member

    Messages:
    939
    Location:
    ct
    Convert it? Only if you're lucky, sooner or later the bladder or diaphram (depending on the tank manufacturer) will settle to the bottom of the tank and close off the inlet/discharge port. When that happens the pump will short cycle and die a premature death.

    The only domestic tank I know of that had replacement bladders were Sta Rites, those bladders were as thin as a condom and lasted about as long.
  3. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    IL
    nah, I'm gonna cut the bladder out.
  4. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,459
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The air chamber part of the tank is not coated for water. it will rust out quickly above the bladder line. You would be better off with a standard hydro pneumatic tank without a bladder. It is also hard to use a CSV on a system with a air maker, as there needs to be a certain amount of flow from the pump to make the air maker draw in air. A CSV can be used on a system like this, you just have to set the CSV up closer to the pressure switch shut off pressure.
  5. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    IL
    It's a fiberglass tank and has an air cell, not a bladder. Sorry about that. My thread title wasn't worded properly. With that in mind any thoughts on this?

    I'm also aware of the air problem with a CSV. I've been reading up on this stuff for some time and have a decent idea of what I need to do. I was thinking of switching to one of those chlorine pellet systems with the carbon added to my current iron remover which actually leads me to another question. How long does that carbon generally last? I'm assuming it has a limited lifetime for efficient absorption of chlorine?
  6. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    IL
    This is my tank, an SR48-14s-01

    [​IMG]
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,229
    Location:
    IL
    http://www.sta-rite.com/ResidentialProduct_sr_ws_tk_PSC_14_4.aspx owner's manual has instructions for replacing the air cell. So I think the bladder could be removed. You might have to keep the end pieces to seal, but cut away the rest.

    I don't know how you would install the thing that controls the air volume 9(air check valve?), since those are normally on the side. You could buy time by adding air with an air compressor or removing air manually for a while until you get around to a proper solution.

    This is not a recommendation.

    How long did the bladder/air cell last?

    Edit: It was hard to find references to the replacement air cell/bladder/liner. Try this search which references one part, but will have some other part numbers listed in the same page:

    http://www.google.com/search?q="U31-397P"+replacement

    I see replacement air cells for 20, 35, 60, 85 sizes, but not the 48 unfortunately. You should call the manufacturer if you wanted to look for that, I guess, if you don't have better luck searching than I did.
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
  8. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    IL
    This tank was installed in 2007. What you are describing is exactly what I had in mind as far as keeping the end piece and cutting out the rest. If I'm thinking this properly I would never really need to add more air since I'm injecting air into the water at every pump cycle (which then gets bled off at the next contact tank with an air relief). I can't think of any reason this wouldn't work.
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,229
    Location:
    IL
    I could imagine a reason, but I could also imagine it working great.

    I was thinking about what if the pressure tank had too much air. What if, at the same time, the contact tank had too much water, and could not release air. Maybe this can't happen. If we presume the case of 100% air at 30 PSI (assuming a 30/50 PSI switch), can a dollop of air under pressure add more air leaving little to no space for water? Seems worth a try. At worst you release air manually for a while while you order a new air cell.

    I am sure you will keep an eye on it initially to see if anything negative happens. Maybe there would be a tweak to the plumbing to portion out the air dose if it does not work quite right initially.
  10. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,459
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Fiberglass tanks won’t rust when water gets into the air chamber. And removing the bladder from that brand of tank is the best thing because they don’t last anyway.

    The problem I see is when adding air to this tank, it will get completely full of air as the inlet/outlet hole is in the very bottom of the tank.

    You charge it with air, and it won’t have a drop of water in that tank.
  11. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    IL
    Here's what I *think* will happen.

    I cut out the air cell and drain the tank. Close off the service valve to the house so all I'm really looking at is the tank and the pipe heading down the well to the pump. Add air to 38psi (running my switch at 40/60). This will get me a good air charge to start. Now when I turn on the pump even more air will enter because of the air injector between the pump and tank. But, I don't really care because even if the tank burps air into my line during drawdown (which I believe is inevitable since I'm adding air on every pump cycle through the injector) the very next thing down the line in my chain of treatment goodies is my 60 gallon contact tank with an air-bleed float that maintains around 16" of air above the water at all times. That contact tank is the key if I'm thinking this right. It will be my holding tank even if the now modified bladder tank essentially becomes a full blown bladder of it's own. That make sense or am I thinking wrong?
  12. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    IL
    See my post above.
  13. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,229
    Location:
    IL
    One additional problem I could envision is that your pressure tank turns the fine bubbles from the injector into bigger burps. Again, it may work great, and I look forward to hearing that.
  14. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    IL
    I really have nothing to lose at this point. I'm gonna go for it probably this weekend when I can get a little time to turn off the water. I'll snap some pics and update the thread.
  15. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,121
    Location:
    Houston, TX

    I do not see why it will not work, as long as the tank has no leaks.


    Go for it.
  16. Boycedrilling

    Boycedrilling In the Trades

    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Royal City, WA
    A bladder style tank and a hydro pneumatic tank are plumbed a little bit differently. Usually a blade tank is kind of a "dead end" connection. The water flows into it when the pump is running and pressure is building. When the pump is off, the flow reverses and flows back out the single connection to the tank. A hydro pneumatic tank has an "in" and an "out" connection. All the pump flow travels thru the tank.

    I have not used the pentair composite tank. I normally use the flexcon brand composite tank. However I have used the wellmate tank set up as a hydro pneumatic tank, on a well that entrained gas in the water. Her is a link to a schematic of the wellmate tank set up this way

    http://www.wellmate.com/en-US/produ...atic-air-water-tanks/hp-quick-connect-series/


    You will notice that it has a tee connection on the bottom. All the water enters the tank and then exits again. If the water line tees and then goes to the tank on a dead end, the air can bypass the tank.
  17. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,121
    Location:
    Houston, TX

    Good point.
  18. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    IL
    Great point. That wellmate link you posted is exactly what I have for a contact tank after this bladder tank I'm modifying. The only difference is my air float is much higher up inside the tank. It normally has 80% water and 20% air. I'm assuming this is because we actually want to get rid of the air instead of use it for pressure. At the worst I might need to recharge the air more often if I get a lot of bypass but honestly I can't see that happening. That air injector seems to let a LOT of air in.
  19. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,172
    Location:
    Maine
    Why wouldn't you just buy a new tank?
  20. BDrivenByDemons

    BDrivenByDemons Member

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    IL
    Why spend $$$ on a tank if I can make this one work? Especially if these tanks have a reputation of blowing air cells?
Similar Threads: Convert bladder
Forum Title Date
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog Can convertible pump ejector be mounted with short pieces of pipe? Jun 27, 2014
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog Venturi Jet and brass nozzle placement on 2 hole convertable pump Apr 14, 2014
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog Convert Zoeller Pump with Piggy Float Switch Jan 4, 2012
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog How to test used convertible shallow well Shur-Dri pump before installing? Jul 15, 2011
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog converting iron well pump into kitchen faucet? Aug 8, 2010

Share This Page