Coliform Present in My Well

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by gmrules, Dec 18, 2009.

  1. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Gary, I have neither attacked you or the equipment you sell. What I have done is attempted to put forward facts--facts that do conflict with some of the assertions you have put forward--particularly the assertion that inline erosion pellet feeders are less expensive than solution feeders for chlorine and the assertion that inline erosion pellet feeders have the least maintenance.

    In my opinion having to don googles and gloves to open and clean an inline pellet erosion system with acid at six weeks is heavy maintenance--particularly compared to the maintenance required with a solution feeder.

    All systems require maintenance but my opinion is that working with a liquid chlorine that is a 6% solution before dilution, as is done with the solution feeder, is much safer and easier than working with the extremely strong chlorine solution created in a pellet system--particularly considering the safety issues of using acid as recommended for periodic cleaning of erosion systems. In an industrial setting working with those chemicals together would only be allowed with a respirator and a chemical protection suit because mixing acid with a chlorine solution will cause the release of chlorine gas.
  2. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    Where did all the posts go?
  3. gmrules

    gmrules New Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Raleigh NC
    I just want you all to know I have been speaking to and getting advise from gary for a few years now, I have never been given the hard sell or pushed to buy anything at all.

    If I choose to buy they I am a grown man and not influenced by some guy either on the Internet or my local plumbing supply house.

    I bet all of can say we have been feed a bill of goods in person as well as a bill online. The old motto Buyer beware holds true he and anywhere you spend your money.

    Gary has been nothing but nice and helpful from what I have seen and experienced. I personally hate when people bad mouth like this. The Crap always comes out in the wash. So if your logic holds here I should listen to you someone I have never spoken to and say gary is a guys just out to sell his wares and not truly help people but you are not like that, you are a true and honest person and gary is not based on WHAT?

    I have had my personal experience and seen his help on the forums over the years. Till he does something to me he is a good guy in my book.
  4. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    I don't think anyone cares if someone is selling stuff here. It's been made pretty clear that selling on this forum is ok. ( though perhaps changing the writing of the rules might be helpful) The big problem with filtration is that everyone in the business has their own opinions as to what works well and what does not. Most times the opinion is based on experiance with different products and or methods. It seem that quite often a topic will come up here with different professionals having different methods or opinions and sooner or later it turns into an argument. If members would just stick to voicing their opinion and then leave it at that, we could probably avoid a lot of the BS that happens on this forum. Unfortunatly there seems to be a lot of ego involved in the discussions and it leaves the OP scratching their heads and wondering if perhaps they should go somewhere else. The other sad thing is that we have lost about a dozen members here in the past few months that all contributed to the discussion in meaningfull ways. Now there are only a handful of us left. Personaly if I think I am right, I will listen to any argument and consider it. If I still disagree than I'm just gonna move on. Why get into a Pi&&ing match?

    Now everybody just chill out and have a MERRY CHRISTMAS
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2009
  5. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Yes Bob, I have already agreed with you that you are correct that your dinky 15 gal tank (most of my chlorination customers would be refilling it about every two weeks or less) and the lowest cost proportional pump is less expensive than my system.

    I have also told you based on my 23 yrs experience in treating water with chlorine that without a correctly sized retention tank, your way fails.

    George here with his need for chlorine would not get the job done with your system for very long because there is no 20 minute contact time with your system.

    I have also asked you if you sold water treatment equipment. You fail to answer and keep repeating and error that I have not made. I see that as a personal attack on me and /or my system. This is making you look bad Bob.

    Answer the cost of the retention tank and if you sell equipment or are you just going on your one time experience wit ha solution feeder?

    You showed the price of the tank I use (my price is less than the web site you used) and if you add in it's cost, IIRC your system then is the same price as mine or higher.

    Bob, recall that the lady is paranoid; you've read all her posts on my forum. I've never heard of another customer doing that and I nor my wife have ever done that. Glasses is a good idea though.

    As to the 6 weeks, most customers do it the first time in 8 weeks but, it is done to gauge how much pellets have been used so the customer can establish the schedule they need to fit their pellet usage; so it isn't necessarily maintenance. Some customers go 3-4 months between 'maintenance' but, not all of them have to use acid.

    The acid is a very weak solution, vinegar can also be used but it will take longer to clean the clean tube they replace the tube they take out and the cleaning of the tube is done after getting their unit back in service. Also, I mention the acid product by name and not all customers have to use acid of any kind. Also, it isn't chlorine they are removing/cleaning as much as hard water scale and, the formation is dependent on the customer's water quality and many don't have the problem.

    Anyway, thanks for the opportunity you have provided me to fully explain my system and its maintenance procedure etc..
  6. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I don't see it as a problem that individuals have differing opinions. I do see it as a problem when individuals assert opinions as facts.

    There is often more than one way to deal with a water treatment problem. The discussion in this thread makes that point quite clear. Even when the chosen treatment method is chlorination there is more than one way to chlorinate. Gary Slusser is a strong proponent of inline pellet erosion feeders to chlorinate. While I have posted information that, in my view, undercuts two of the advantages that Gary cites for pellet systems I agree with him that they work and that they have some advantages over solution feeders.

    I believe that solution feeders also have some advantages over pellet systems and on balance are preferable. However that is my opinion--it is not a fact any more than Gary's belief that pellet systems are preferable is a fact.
  7. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

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    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    The above post is item number 40 in this thread. I have quoted it because in a subsequent post Gary Slusser asked:

    "Answer the cost of the retention tank and if you sell equipment or are you just going on your one time experience wit ha solution feeder?"
  8. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Gary, I think you have me confused with someone else. I have never advocated treating water with chlorine without a correctly sized retention tank.

    What I have said is that in a discussion of the cost of an inline erosin pellet feeder as compared to the cost of a solution feeder that it is not necessary to consider the retention tank--because it is common to both systems.
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Wasn't it you that said Cass might want to shut the thread down?

    I guess someone did by deleting posts and banning the offenders and probably for the reasons you were thinking of when you mentioned that.

    It could also be because those folks were previously banned here under other names and decided to do the same stuff that they were banned for previously; actually a number of times previously. Over the last 9-10 months.

    IMO I suspect they were welcome here until they reverted to their old ways again, and I suspect some will be back again. And POOF! gone again if they revert to their old ways.

    What was it that someone smarter than me said about repeating your previous failed attempts at something and expecting a different result? It was kinda like being stuck on stupid wasn't it? I guess you're right and stupid IS forever...
  10. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Even weak acids like vinegar, when mixed with a strong chlorine solution, produce chlorine gas.
  11. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    I just don't understand all the arguing. NOBODY is going to change anybody's mind. When someone has a strong opinion, they usually stick with it no matter how compelling the argument on the other side is. It's a lot like arguing politics with liberals. It's a waste of time because they never address the issue, only their "feelings" Solution feeders, pellet feeders, either way the pro's and con's have been tossed out there and now it's up to the consumer to decide. Yes I think Cass should have shut the thread down a long time ago because there is nothing new being added and what has ensued since the first few posts has pretty much been a waste of time. It's kind of too bad there is not a forum for arguing, abusing and belittling each other. I'm sure it would be a big hit :D
  12. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Bob, the tank I use is not used by most dealers and the price for the retention tanks they use, usually glass lined galvanized or Well Mater fiberglass, cost more than $450; to be equivalent to my tank they have to be 120 gallon tanks. I showed you that the last time we discussed this same claim of yours. That size tank can be 90-100% of my system's total cost. That is what I base me statement on.
  13. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
  14. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Yes I know Bob, and like I said, I sell it delivered for less than that site does, so go find and post some galvanized and Well Mate 120 gallon retention tank prices that most dealers use with their solution feeders.
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