Coliform Present in My Well

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by gmrules, Dec 18, 2009.

  1. gmrules

    gmrules New Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Raleigh NC
    I have a few questions, This is the second time my well has tested positive for bacteria. It was fine for as few years always negative till I pulled the pump last year to replace it and did not shock it,

    I shocked it last year after it tested positive and then waited and it tested neg for bacteria. So I waited like 6-8 months and tested positive.

    I am not 100% sure I did it correctly last time so I am posting here for correct amount of shock to use.

    The well is 230 feet deep 6" drilled. 30GPM recovery, Goulds 1 1/2 HP Gould s 18GS.

    PVC lined.

    County says to use 9oz per 100 Feet for 6" well. so based on this I need 21-23 oz something like that. Could it hurt if I just used 2lbs of pool shock Calcium hydrochloride?

    then they say pump the water from the well head back into the well through the vent till I smell chlorine I have CSV in my crawl before my Tank will that hurt anything? then they say to move to the next hose bib and then faucet by faucet till I smell chlorine at each one.

    then let it sit 24 hours.


    Assume all this is right how long should I wait to test the water again?

    should I have some kind of filter system installed so I do not have to worry? From what I read maybe no way to know where its2 coming from they said maybe put a camera down the hole.

    Is there a treatment system I can put in to mediate bacteria?

    TIA

    George
  2. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    I would not use anything but chlorine.
  3. gmrules

    gmrules New Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Raleigh NC
    I was not suggesting another chemical I was wondering if I have a well whose water keeps getting bacteria if there was a filter or some kind of treatent I could use

    Thanks
    George
  4. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    You can use a chlorine injection system, but I would first look into why the well continually tests positive for coliform. IE, badly grouted and or sealed. Even so, if you run through all that and come up empty there are wells that pick up bacteria from the aquafir in which case you will need to treat it.
  5. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    You should not use anything but FDA approved chlorine pellets but many people use nonscented regular household bleach. DO NOT use swimming pool chlorine.

    I've shocked a lot of wells and can tell you that I'd sue more than the 9 oz/100'. You say you have a 4" liner, so you don't have 6" of water or 1.47 gals/ft.

    If you want to know if you have a recurring contamination, retest 7-9 days after the smell of chlorine is gone.

    There are a number of different ways to treat your water but IMO the best is an inline erosion pellet chlorinator, 12" x 65" bottom drain mixing tank (equivalent to a 120 gal retention tank) and a backwashed carbon filter with a special carbon in it. I've been selling that system for many years and it has the least maintenance of any system, costs the least and has no moving parts. It also takes up the least space of any chlorination system.
  6. gmrules

    gmrules New Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Raleigh NC
    where do I get those and what dose do u suggest for my case?
  7. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Any water treatment dealer and some plumbing and pump supply houses.

    How much depends on the demand for chlorine; iron takes 4-5 ppm and with bacteria there's no way to know. So if I were you, I'd use like 1.5 gallon but, with a 30 gpm recovery rate, I don't give you much chance for success no matter how much you use.

    And you're assumption that you created the problem, that's unlikely. And once you find bacteria, you have no dependability of being bacteria free in the future. I would buy equipment and treat the water as I use it.
  8. gmrules

    gmrules New Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Raleigh NC
    How much chlorine do I need then? Do I need to consider the water in the whole system?

    I have to run the chlorine in everything so don;t I have to consider that in the dilution?

    I have in my garage upstairs 2 roughed in sinks one bathroom and one for a kitchen, obviously I cannot flush those without breaking them open, will this be an issue since I will be running the treated water through the whole system will the fact the these are never used allow bacteria to collect?

    If I bought your system would that go in my crawl space?

    I irrigate with this well too I assume I do not want to pump treated water on my grass do I install it past the CSV and the tee to the irrigation?

    it looks like this

    well ------ 1 1/4 black poly pipe --- Foundation wall -- 1 1/4 Scheld 40 -- CSV -- Tee -- Irrigation
    |
    |---- Pressure Tank--- House

    Thanks
    George
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    "So if I were you, I'd use like 1.5 gallon"

    Dead ends like at those sinks are not good because they can not be sanitized.

    Equipment always goes after the pressure tank, never before it.

    It depends on how high/deep the crawl space is but I have had people dig a hole for the tanks to fit the headroom; so yes, it can go in the crawl space as long as it can not freeze.
  10. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    An injection system for chlorine is lower cost--both to buy and particularly to operate--than a pellet erosion system. The pellet erosion systems use very expensive pellets--a years supply will typically cost $150 or more--while a years supply of chlorine with an injection sytem costs less than $15--it uses household bleach purchased at the supermarket.

    Whether you use a pellet erosion system or an injection system to chlorinate you will still need a retention tank and a carbon filter.
  11. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    We've had this conversation before..... Yes bleach is less expensive than pellets but...

    I have customers that the initial 22 lbs of pellets that I include with the system lasts them 18-24+ months. And to purchase a solution feeder SYSTEM with the same flow rate (both my hopper and mixing tank = 21 gpm) including an equivalent retention tank (120 gallons) will cost more than my delivered price of $773 including the retention tank.

    Installation of the solution feeder system with any size retention tank will also cost more than my system and will take up much more space and it requires electric while mine doesn't. Of course the carbon filter of either type system does. And rebuilding a solution feeder pump when needed isn't free. My system has no moving parts to 'break' or wear out.

    And then each system will require the same size carbon filter.

    My price for my chlorination system includes the hopper, mixing/retention tank and 22lbs of pellets. I sell 22 lbs of replacement pellets for a delivered price of $148.40.

    IIRC I showed you the price of various 80-120 gal retention tanks the last time you claimed the same thing but, I doubt anyone can get a 120 gal retention tank to their house for even half my total system delivered price of $773.00. If you disagree show me the URL to the prices.

    Also, most people with a solution feeder hate the baby sitting they require and the fact they don't work well without a stirrer running 24/7; which increases their total purchase price so most people don't buy a stirrer.
  12. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    A Stenner injector pump can be purchased for $205 delivered. A 15 gallon solution tank can be purchased delivered for $35. A supply of chlorine from the local supermarket is less than $15. So the total cost for the injector system for chlorine is $255, including the chlorine.

    My understanding is that you sell the model 400 pellet erosion feeder. This can be purchased on-line for $269 plus shipping--no chlorine included. See here: http://4pureh2o.com/chemical-feeder.html
  13. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I need the URL to anyone selling a 15 gallon solution tank for a delivered price of $35.

    And Bob, where is your delivered price for the 80-120 gallon retention tanks?
  14. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Gary,

    I have provided the data to show that a chlorine injection system can be purchased for less than the erosion pellet feeder. This supports my original statement that "An injection system for chlorine is lower cost--both to buy and particularly to operate--than a pellet erosion system. "

    The solution tank is available here:

    http://www.qualitywaterforless.com/Chemical_Storage_Tank_15_p/c1424pst.htm
  15. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    That's one hell of a site Bob, those are some damn good pricing. Glad I don't have to compete with them :D
  16. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Bob, the $205 pump is the cheapest in my catalog and is proportional dose.

    My cost for the tank is just under $19 and I know you don't ship it across the US for just $10 but let's say you can, then they aren't making anything or, they bought a large volume of them but I wish them well.

    So you have a 15 gal tank and the cheapest type pump, but no retention, are you planning on using the pressure tank as retention? If so, it won't work for the OP's Coliform bacteria problem because you need more retention time than a pressure tank's volume of water will provide.

    Suggested Retail of that pump.
    Stenner Pump Control Module
    The PCM is a component of a feed system that delivers repeatable doses based on water volume.
    The proportional feed system includes the PCM, fixed output pump and simple inline dry contact
    water meter. The PCM system is suitable for a variety of applications such as pH control, disinfection
    and oxidation of iron, hydrogen sulfide and manganese.
    PCM5 0.5 - 5 Seconds, 115 Volt $ 285.00

    Suggested Retail prices for Stenner 3-17 gpd pumps.

    [​IMG]ADD "-B" suffix to the part number for pumps with UV Black suction discharge tubing instead of clear.
    45MHP2-110 (-B) 3 gpd, 26 rpm, 110v, #1 Pump Tube $619.00
    45MHP2-220 (-B) 3 gpd, 26 rpm, 220v, #1 Pump Tube $619.00
    45MHP10-110 (-B) 10 gpd, 26 rpm, 110v, #2 Pump Tube $619.00
    45MHP10-220 (-B) 10 gpd, 26 rpm, 220v, #2 Pump Tube $619.00
    85MHP17-110 (-B) 17 gpd, 44 rpm, 110v, #2 Pump Tube $619.00
    85MHP17-220 (-B) 17 gpd, 44 rpm, 220v, #2 Pump Tube $619.00

    Now none of them include the pickup or injector etc. etc., it's just the pump so you have to add teh rest of teh parts to your $205 pricing.

    And if you do it right with even an 80 gal retention tank, it totals more than $773; as I proved the last time we did this a few months ago.

    Their price for the 85mph17 gpd pump is $379.00 shipping included.
    http://www.qualitywaterforless.com/Stenner_Pumps_and_Parts_s/63.htm
  17. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Gary,

    If you were to do a little research you could find out some of these facts for yourself. But, since you seem unwilling or unable to do it for yourself, I will do it for you.

    The Stenner pump I quoted includes the pickup and the injector and necessary tubing and a replacement pump tube. I previously provided you with the link to the solution tank. As I previously posted the cost of the pump including delivery (with accessories) is $205. The solution tank is $35 delivered.
    As to your assertion that it is the "cheapest type pump" I will observe that Stenner is a quality brand and, in my view, is not appropriatly referred to as the "cheapest type pump."

    As to a retention tank--it doesn't seem to me that it is relevant-because it is required whatever cholorine source is used. But, since you keep bringing it up I will provide the information. An 80 gallon retention tank, or the tank that you include in the system you quoted in an earlier post, is availble for approximately $450 delivered. So the delivered price for the solution pump (with accessaries), solution tank, and retention tank, plus a large supply of chlorine from the local supermarket is approximately (205 + 35 + 15 + 450) $705. This is LESS than the price you quoted ($773) for the erosion pellet feeder, chlorine pellets, and retention tank.

    So, I believe I have fully supported my statement that "An injection system for chlorine is lower cost--both to buy and particularly to operate--than a pellet erosion system. ".
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2009
  18. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Bob, what's the link to the $205 pump?

    As to soda ash and chlorine injected together, I didn't know people were still doing that, it doesn't work well and many dealers have stopped doing it in one feeder but... Chlorine is a better disinfectant when the pH is lower than when it's higher. When the pH is higher chlorine is a better oxidizer. BTW, chlorine raises the pH some.

    Shocking a well does not get to the source of a Coliform bacteria problem.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2009
  19. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
  20. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I don't see anything included with the pump there but, anyone wanting a pump ought to buy a truckload at those prices. I think the guy has an error with his pricing. I didn't see where shipping was included either.

    Anyway, George ordered his equipment from me yesterday during all this 'discussion'.
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