case toilet 3200/6000

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by MikeT., Aug 21, 2013.

  1. MikeT.

    MikeT. New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    Terry: I just finished replacing Case replacement parts Kit 5119 Plunger for ballcock 5163/5164 with some success. She shuts off just fine now but here is the problem. The plunger (flapper) wants to seal back quickly so you don't get a complete flush so you have to hold the handle down and keep it down until the bowl fills up to the proper amount and then let the tank fill. This should not be. Also, and I don't know if this is a problem, but water comes out the top and not completely from the diverter so you have a water noise. Is that the way it was meant to be? I noticed that the flapper (plunger) seal was much smaller than the one I had on there. I also purchased a 3 inch flapper when I bought the kit. The salesman was kind of worried that the flapper in the kit was going to be too small to do the job so he suggested I get this one also. The flapper in the kit seals good but like I said does not want to stay up long enough to get a good flush and fill the bowl. Thanks for your help, Mike
  2. Starwarsith88

    Starwarsith88 DIY kid who loves toilets

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Sparta NJ
    I would try putting in a fill valve with an adjustable fill rate and also the flapper might be meant for 1.6 gallon per flush toilets.
  3. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,847
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Anybody who would sell you a 3" flapper for a case 6000 is a moron. The Korky 52P is a typical replacement for the Briggs 5173 flapper. You can also frankly use the generic Korky black flapper. Make sure you have adjusted the chain so that the flapper pops up and floats up. Sometimes on these lowboys if you don't set the chain right you don't get the thing all the way open and it doesn't float open, it just rides the handle position open and closed. Leave the fill valve alone; sounds like you fixed it.
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,994
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Looking inside a Case 3000

    I don't believe standard repair parts from a home center is going to fix this.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
  5. MikeT.

    MikeT. New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    I did use genuine Case replacement parts and it shuts on and off just fine, no leaks but why doesn't the bowl fill up to at least half way? It's gonna be a mess if I can't get more water in the bowl! Mike
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,990
    Location:
    New England
    I do not know how it directs water to the bowl, but if that can be adjusted, you need to open that flow up a bit so the bowl is full once the tank is. It is a careful balancing act to maintain designed water usage...if the bowl is not properly filled, when you flush, part of the water goes to filling the bowl rather than starting the flush.
  7. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,847
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Okay. A couple of questions. Do you have a flapper or a tank ball. Flapper attaches to little hooks on (or wraps around) the flush valve. Tank ball is on a wire and floats back down with the water level and seals in place, like the one in Terry's picture.

    When you say "complete flush" -- do you mean that the tank empties for a "complete flush" or do you mean something else? I think you are saying that the flapper (or tank ball) is closing before enough water exits the tank. You are also saying that you now have to hold the lever down after the bowl siphons out to then refill the bowl, correct? If that's the case it almost sounds like the diverter isn't working properly because that is what runs water into the bowl, after the flapper (tank ball) seals the flush valve, in order to refill the bowl.

    Give us a little more color on your symptoms, or take a picture or video or something so we can see what you are talking about.
  8. MikeT.

    MikeT. New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    I have a tank ball that screws into a metal wire and floats down and seals in place as i Terry's picture. Yes, I have to hold the lever down until the tank is empty to get a full flush and refill the bowl and then refill the tank. If I just hold the lever down a short time the ball will go down and stop the flush. This toilet was put in the mid seventies when they built the house. I wish I could send a pic or video but I don't know how. Do you think it is the diverter causing the problem?
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,990
    Location:
    New England
    After you've flushed the toilet, first, note the height of the water in the bowl, then take a bucket or big pan and SLOWLY pour water into the bowl. At some point, the water will stop rising. That is where the water should be after it flushes. If it DOES go up, you need to find out how to divert more water DURING the refill, to fill the bowl. The only thing the float in the tank does is stop it when it gets to the proper height. BOTH the bowl AND the tank have to be full for it to flush properly.
  10. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,847
    Location:
    New York, NY
    With a tank ball, if the thing closes right after you flush, it's kind of like having a chain that has too much slack so the flapper doesn't open fully and therefore doesn't float on the water but rather just snaps back shut. If you can adjust the tank ball guide so it's a little higher, and you can pull that tank ball up higher when you first pull the flush lever, you may get it to float longer and thus let more water run in. More water running out of the tank, the longer the refill time; the longer the refill time, the more water diverted into the bowl on tank refill to more fully refill the bowl. However, you have a diverter thingy that cuts off the refill flow to the rim holes before the tank is completely full, so that could be an issue. Nevertheless, it strikes me that getting the tank ball to float longer should be job one. The tank on this Case, unlike tanks on modern low-flows, should drain quite a bit when you pull and let go of the flush handle.

    If that doesn't do it, then we may need to mess with the diverter. If I understand it correctly, there is a "rim flow regulator" at the bottom of the "husher tube", which is the straight up and down tube that doesn't go through the porcelain. Turn that rim flow regulator thing to the right, and you get more flow to the rim and less to the tank; turn it to the left and the reverse happens. I'm guessing that, once you get the tank ball to float and not to close right away, you may want to experiment with the settings on that thing.

    HJ is a complete expert on these toilets, so he's really the guy to walk you through it, but let's get the basics in place first, then maybe he will chime in with some super-sage insights.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
  11. MikeT.

    MikeT. New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    Not sure how to adjust tank ball guide, can't find any adjustment. Do you think using the larger 3" ball would make a difference to get it to float longer? The diverter does have a black plastic round thin dial thing about the size of a poker chip that can be turned left or right. For now I have to keep holding the lever down until I get the flush and then 2-3 more seconds to fill the bowl before I let the tank start filling. I know this is not correct because it use to work silently and perfectly with just a short pull of the lever. Also, some water is coming out of the metal top (not sure of the name of that piece) I think "ball cock" it is connected directly to the float and controls the water on/off flow. Thanks for all your help, I would like to get the victory over this mechanical device and see it work as it is susposed to but am willing to settle for less if I have to. Just glad it is not leaking anymore and shuts off when the tank is full.
  12. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,847
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I may be misunderstanding the tank ball issue. When you flush, does the tank ball rise high enough to allow it to float long enough to drain the preponderance of the tank? If so, then leave it alone for now. If not, and you have to hold the lever down to get it to drain any more than a second or so (i.e. the ball doesn't rise high enough to float on/in the water) then you want to adjust the handle assembly so that it pulls the ball up high enough for it to float some.

    The refill issue is controlled by two things. First, there is a dam that cuts off the rim refill once the tank rises to a certain level. Second, there is an adjustment, which I believe you have now found, that controls the percentage of the water coming out of the wall that flows through the rims to refill the bowl. In other words, you have an adjustable refill ratio. Given that you probably replaced this husher tube as part of the refurbishment of the toilet, try adjusting the rim flow regulator so that it devotes the maximum percentage of the water that it will to accomplishing the refill (i.e. turn it to the right as far as it will go), and then flush the toilet, don't hold the handle down, let the tank fill, and come back here and tell us what happened.
  13. MikeT.

    MikeT. New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! That is one for each successful flush! Thanks for staying with me. I was getting so frustrated today because I tried and tried to get it right. But I was coming in from the garage feeling bad and I thought what is the one thing I haven't done. Pray! So I said, Please God, help me. Went back to the toilet who by now was becoming my best friend or worst enemy! Anyway, I was adjusting the handle to the right or far up position. Then I adjusted the top "poker chip" looking thing to the counterclockwise position just a little bit because if you go to far it actually shuts off the water supply, then I adjusted the "other poker chip" thing counterclockwise to the open position but not too much or it would lock the plunger (tank ball) in the up position and get stuck (ugh). I filled it up, prayed again, and Wah Lah water came streaming into the bowl so hard it was pushing the water in the bowl, the tank ball went all the way up to the top highest position and just floated down like an autumn leaf on a cool fall day and came down landed squarely on the hole that feeds the bowl. By that time the bowl was already filling up and the tank began to fill ever so nicely until I waited to hear that friendly squishing sound as it locked in the off position just before the water hit the overflow hole. I never thought a toilet could be such a good friend! And as for good friends you guys are GREAT! I LOVE your name! And it is obvious you guys love people. Thanks to all the good folks who answered my plea for help and may God (of Abraham, Issac and Jacob) bless you ALL! Mike (in Knoxville,TN) KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
  14. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,847
    Location:
    New York, NY
    CONGRATULATIONS, MIKE!!! :cool:

    Your post made my day. Great descriptions!! Glad we could help!!
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
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