Cadet 3 Toilet Rock

[Shubox56]

Guys, I know that a toilet can be shimmed, but shouldn't most toilets be "right" out of the box? I bought 2 Cadet 3 toilets based on thousands of great reviews, one has zero side-to-side rock, but rocks front to back. It's not the floor. I laid the toilet on its side, and front to back is slightly off, maybe a 1/16 max. Is this the case more times than not?

I have a second Cadet 3 which I'm definitely returning. Rocks in more than one direction. Not pleased.

 

[Terry]

I think it's rare that a bowl sits flat on a flat floor. Sometimes they do though. I have shims with me at all times for when they don't sit flat.
And really how often are floors flat? Especially tile floors?

If you seen how toilets are made, it's surprising they do as well as they do. When the clay is green, they are about 20% bigger, and then after pulling them from the kiln, they shrink.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Shubox56]

Thanks Terry. I will keep one and exchange the other. I guess it was wishful thinking that the toilet would be perfect out of the box.

My floor isn't tiled. The test was on the subfloor that is arrow straight. I took someone's recommendation of using a penny, which I placed at the rear of the toilet, and that seems to be enough to eliminate the front to back rock in the one I'm keeping.

 

[Dana]

A traditional fix for a rocking bowl is to set it on a bead of gypsum plaster (plaster of paris) around the perimeter. It's a bit of a PITA to get the plaster off the porcelain & flooring/subfloor if it ever needs to be removed for any reason, but it works. It's less hygroscopic and more dimensionally stable than wood shims (the other traditional method) and not hard enough to crack the porcelain.

A penny can work, but it puts a somewhat narrowly focused stress point on the porcelain. Filling in around the perimeter with a fairly firm not too strongly bonding caulk such as silicone (or doing the plaster thing) would keep the pressure at the penny shim bounded, letting the somewhat compressible wooden subfloor absorb most of that point pressure.

 

[Shubox56]

A traditional fix for a rocking bowl is to set it on a bead of gypsum plaster (plaster of paris) around the perimeter. It's a bit of a PITA to get the plaster off the porcelain & flooring/subfloor if it ever needs to be removed for any reason, but it works. It's less hygroscopic and more dimensionally stable than wood shims (the other traditional method) and not hard enough to crack the porcelain.

A penny can work, but it puts a somewhat narrowly focused stress point on the porcelain. Filling in around the perimeter with a fairly firm not too strongly bonding caulk such as silicone (or doing the plaster thing) would keep the pressure at the penny shim bounded, letting the somewhat compressible wooden subfloor absorb most of that point pressure.

Would a hard rubber shim be more forgiving (porcelain stress point)?

I installed a floating floor which only complicates things. I'm using a Sani Seal that will flex with any floor compression. I'm working with a plumber (or will be soon) that has used Sani Seal and actually recommends the product in certain circumstances. Mine being one. My flange is level with the top of the floating floor, he has used them in situations like this and prefers it over a double wax ring, especially when it's a floating floor.

 

[Terry]

I use these rubber shims now.

 

[Reach4]

Would a hard rubber shim be more forgiving (porcelain stress point)?

The rim would seem to make localized stress points.

I'm using a Sani Seal that will flex with any floor compression. I'm working with a plumber (or will be soon) that has used Sani Seal and actually recommends the product in certain circumstances. Mine being one. My flange is level with the top of the floating floor, he has used them in situations like this and prefers it over a double wax ring, especially when it's a floating floor.

The SaniSeal makes sense if you are going to rock.

On the floating floor, do you think you would tighten the closet bolts less, and not caulk? I am thinking you would want to tighten the bolts and caulk. That would seem to pin the floor at that place. Then you would leave the expansion space around the edges, with bigger gaps farther from the toilet.

 

[Shubox56]

Reach4, you bring up great points. I'm very nervous about my decision to install the floating LVP flooring. But what's done is done. My gap around the flange is basically 1/8" and a 1/4" along the walls. I ran an 1/8" at the tub as well. I caulked the gap at the tub and toilet flange. And you are correct about the toilet pinning the floor into place.

This will probably end badly. :-(

 

[Reach4]

This will probably end badly. :-(

I don't remember reading horror stories. If the bathroom had a place with a long length of floating floor from the toilet to the wall, then buckling would seem to be more of a possibility.

 

[Shubox56]

As mentioned, the flange location is not perfect, but it's what I have to work with. Under the floating floor there's a moisture barrier to prevent water from slowly leaking down and rotting away the subfloor and underlayment. I chalked around the toilet flange to also assist with keeping water from seeping into the sub. I also plan on using plumber putty around the flange bolts for this reason. All of this is likely overkill, but I think it may help. The goal is to keep any leak on the surface of the floor (as much as possible) so as to actually SEE the water in the event of an issue.

A subfloor patch was recently installed because of a slow leak in BOTH bathrooms. :-(

FYI: I spoke to a floor installer that agrees --- in a small bathroom the expansion/contraction concern is not likely to be an issue. He said that the manufacturer of the flooring prefers to keep recommendations GENERAL for legal reasons. I sure hope so. I'm just not sure if chalking the toilet base will prove to be to much for the floor to handle. I would LOVE to hear from someone that has a similar setup and HOPEFULLY trouble free.

 

[Reach4]

A subfloor patch was recently installed because of a slow leak in BOTH bathrooms.

Consider asking everybody to sit. Or maybe add a water alarm near the toilet.

The caulking I was thinking of is around 80% of the outside, with acrylic caulk, such as Polyseamseal clear. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/polyseamseal.79846/

 

[Shubox56]

Consider asking everybody to sit. Or maybe add a water alarm near the toilet.

The caulking I was thinking of is around 80% of the outside, with acrylic caulk, such as Polyseamseal clear. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/polyseamseal.79846/

Yes, I know what you meant. I'm considering that likelihood as well. Base and flange chalked.