air gap question...

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by zimbu668, Nov 17, 2004.

  1. zimbu668

    zimbu668 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    [​IMG]

    If this is a stupid question forgive me. I just got new counter tops installed and I'd prefer not having any extra holes in the them. Is there any reason why the air gap couldn't be entirely below the counter? If it makes any difference I have a 10" deep under-mount sink, so there should be plenty of room to work with.

    Thanks in advance.

    Whirlpool Dishwasher instructions
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2004
  2. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Location:
    San Diego
    An air gap ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT be installed below the counter. If you must, get rid of it completely and connect the DW drain directly to the disposer being sure to loop the drain hose as high as possible to the underside of the countertop, then back down into the disposal . This may not be allowed by code in your are, but in some areas it is an generally without incidents.
     
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  4. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2004
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    air gap

    Unless required by local code, forget the air gap. The drain hose has to be looped and attached to the underside of the counter, above the level of the dishwasher and in such a way as not to kink.
     
  5. themax3000

    themax3000 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Some dishwashers now have a "built-in loop"

    Dishwasher manufacturers are finally getting smart and putting a "built-in loop" on the drain line of the dishwasher. Maytag tall tubs are putting in a full height loop. Whirlpool tall tubs, Kitchenaids, Bosch and some GE's are putting in about half-height loops. Perhaps this could solve the"loop" problem altogether! :p
     
  6. casman

    casman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Location:
    New York
    I just installed a maytag and did note the loop configuration on the side of the unit, are you saying this eliminates the requirement to loop high up under the sink countertop before tying into the disposer, cause I haven't gone back to secure that loop, which I guess then is a double Loop...... :)
     
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
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    New England
    I know it is trite, but did you read the manufacturer's instructions? They'd tell you if you needed another loop.
     
  8. themax3000

    themax3000 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Loop should be enough



    Let me start by saying I'm not a plumber, so my advice comes directly from being a dishwasher installer. I install 6-8 of these a day.

    The loop is necessary for 2 reasons (albeit related and perhaps the same):

    * To keep dishwasher drain water from draining back into the d/w
    * To prevent siphoning from occuring and drawing waste water into the d/w

    When a d/w has a loop that goes all the way to the top, I in turn do not strap the drain line up under the sink, because, in effect, the task is already accomplished. If the d/w does not, I usually strap the drain line up, or just drill a new hole at the top of the cabinet, running the drain line through the top.

    Hope this helps!

    Rich



    [
     
  9. casman

    casman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Location:
    New York
    Good point, I'll have to take a look next time I'm over there, I do remember that there was nothing to read as it was all picture illustrations....which I found irritating....
     
  10. themax3000

    themax3000 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Haven't seen loop in instructions

    I have not yet seen one d/w installation manual mention the need for one (although I must admit, I do not read these with a fine-toothed comb!)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2004
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Here are instructions for installation by Whirlpool.

    [​IMG]

    Whirlpool Dishwasher instructions
    Check these instructions, it does mention air gaps and high loops.

    Do you ever have your installations inspected by a plunbing inspector?

    What does the homeowner do when he does have the installation inspected?

    I know that every area is different. I knew a plumber from Iowa that didn't know how to test the waste and vents on a home.
    He never used water lines bigger than 3/4".
    But I later found out that the plumbing inspector was his dad's best friend.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2004
  12. casman

    casman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Location:
    New York
    Hey those instructions would have been helpful, mine was all pictures. My profile had detailed instructions and did mention the loop or air-gap with options for when to use, said something about 18 inches....No I never had it inspected, I'm a lawyer not a plumber, in any event I'd have them plead the 5th if it came up.....
     
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