About to start my shower

[Johnfiorello]

1. cut your drain out from below
2. repair subfloor around drain (this includes proper blocking from below to support this drain area.

Thanks. Since the plumber did this work, I think I have to wait for him to come back and do this. I was really hoping there was a way to move forward without having to call him back but I guess there's not.

Thanks for your help.

JF

 

[ShowerDude]

abs parts are cheap. shouldnt take but an hour or so. go ahead and switch out to a souix cheif drain while your at it.

i want to be clear here John.


the advice ive given you will set you up for A topical membrane weep divit or a "thinbed " type shower pan.


single pour/screed and using a noble flex flashing rather than a redgard drain tie in attempt. a much safer and long term reliable connection.


you can then use a fleece applied membrane for the pan and use youre redgard on the walls . we can walk you right thru the process.


there are other options that require a different approach.

until you pic a system advice is just that.

hope im helping and not YELLING At you, your plan has made me nervous for your success rate though!

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Johnfiorello]

hope im helping and not YELLING At you
I appreciate the help!

If that's what I have to do, then so be it. Especially if a different drain (or the drain in a different place) will make a big difference.

I'll reply back when I get some time to tackle this project (it may be a few months...)

Thanks!

JF

 

[Jadnashua]

A more expensive drain that eliminates the divot would be one from either Schluter, Laticrete, Mapei, or USG. These have a means of attaching your waterproofing membrane on the top of it verses through weep holes from the divot. The drain area sees all of the water in the shower...why have an absorbent divot of mortar there? Those drains have a large surface area and the waterproofing goes on top. One example from USG is shown here on page 5. http://www.durockshowersystem.com/media/27670/Installation_Guide.pdf Schluter's is here on page 22 http://www.schluter.com/media/shower-handbook.pdf?v=201502100603 . FWIW, these all work just fine in a deckmud base or the respective companies' foam pan.

 

[ShowerDude]

hope im helping and not YELLING At you
I appreciate the help!

If that's what I have to do, then so be it. Especially if a different drain (or the drain in a different place) will make a big difference.

I'll reply back when I get some time to tackle this project (it may be a few months...)

Thanks!

JF

The benefit of a weep divit is .... WEEP holes which accomadate backup escape routes for excess water.

Weep holes ? they are Unavailable with a bonding flange drain.

Weep holes if protected and planned properly are your " Saving grace" if you will.

also unavailable with the bonding flange drains

 

[Jadnashua]

The liner is the bottom line safety defense in a shower. Tile is the decorative, wear surface. In a surface membrane, with just the tile and THINset above the liner, a weep hole is not needed - any moisture that might get beneath the tile can still make it to the drain, but because there's so little that can get wet, normally, it just evaporates. With a divot method, because you're trying to combine old and new, IMHO, you get the worst of both worlds - the need for weep holes, the thick layer of mortar that can and will get wet (thus the need for weep holes), and a more complex install. There's a reason all of the major waterproofing companies have come out with surface bonded flanges...they work and solve some problems along the way. They both work when done right, but the modern ones have less to go wrong. Some people have one method they like and disregard all others. IOW, they both work, they both have their advantages and disadvantages, understanding them should help you make a decision you're comfortable with.

 

[Johnfiorello]

There's a reason all of the major waterproofing companies have come out with surface bonded flanges...they work and solve some problems along the way.
So, Jadnashua, if I go with a surface bonded flange similar to the one in this video (below), I wouldn't have to cut out the drain that's I currently have installed now? I'd just need to put down the foam riser, then glue down the flange (or cement or whatever they're using) and then the waterproof membrane? Where does the slope come in with this method?

Thanks,

JF

 

[ShowerDude]

im gonna go abead and put 10$ on these two being buddys.

Any takers?

 

[ShowerDude]

In the event im wrong LOL

John, if you actually need a tile professionals help feel free to contact me directly.



this is my last post to this thread.

again good luck!

 

[Johnfiorello]

im gonna go abead and put 10$ on these two being buddys.

Any takers?

Well, it looks like we're both from New England... Maybe we just think alike.

I appreciate everyones feedback! I'll take as many perspectives as I can. You have to admit it would be great if I didn't have to cut a hole in the second floor ceiling to redo work the plumber already did or rip up the floor to replace a drain if there's another way that doesn't require that, right?

Thanks,

JF

 

[Jadnashua]

Schluter makes a conversion drain assembly that fits onto an existing clamping drain. The drain kit comes with the sealant to mate it to the base of the drain, but you need to keep the bolts and reuse them to then clamp the adapter to the base of the drain. If you had to pay someone to replace your existing drain to get it the height you wanted, the conversion may end up less expensive. That drain will work with probably most fabric surface waterproofing, but your warranty would come from Schluter only if you used Kerdi as part of their system.

The divot method works...I think if you're going to go with a surface waterproofing method, a drain specifically designed for it is your better choice.

The final decision is up to you. Schluter started out using essentially the divot method back in the early 1990's before they came up with their current drain system shortly after because it worked better. It is not new (although the conversion drain may only be about 5-years old, the basic concept of the rest of it is the same). Things evolve, some people don't change, the old ways can still work.

Any of these drains can be used with their preformed foam pans or a mudbed of proper thickness based on industry standards. The preformed pans are not inexpensive in materials, and are no where near as customizable as deckmud, but can be thinner. Some of the shower kit manufacturers will make a custom sized one for you, and all of them can be cut with some limitations.

 

[Jadnashua]

Another thought came to mind...some self-leveling cements have the property that they are thixotropic and as a result, can be placed to create a ramp or slope. Some of them can be applied over a wooden subfloor to a feather edge. While not inexpensive like deckmud, if you were going to go with a surface applied membrane, in theory, you could build a shower pan with the stuff. You would NOT want to use it normally, or if you were going to create a traditional shower pan since it would not be porous, is harder to work, and much more expensive, but for a special circumstance, it may work. I know that Mapei makes at least one product that has this property, and probably others. I'd call them to discuss it if it sounds interesting.

FWIW, SLC products don't really self-level all on their own, but those that exhibit thixotropic properties, don't at all! They all need at least a little help to become level, and thixotropic versions don't really at all unless you manually make them that way. IOW, the stuff essentially stays where you put it, but will 'flow' when agitated (the abbreviated meaning of thixotropic).

Many of the 'pros' here scorn taking time to go to one of the manufacturer's (mostly free) workshops because it takes time away from 'productive' work. I have the luxury of being retired, and can go to absorb that knowledge so I can pass it on. There is a place for both types of learning, but the 'pros' here get really uptight when I point out that what they are doing does not meet industry standards or abide by the manufacturer's instructions. While what they do can, and often does work in their special circumstances, it is poorly positioned for the general knowledge people reading a forum may take out of it...IOW, it may work, and work fine for a special circumstance, but general forums, like this one, are better suited to industry guidelines and manufacturer's tested procedures, not one-offs. What they tend to discuss would be better served on a one-to-one basis, and dispense good, reliable info that won't be confused with a special circumstance on the general forum. They don't see it that way. As a result, we often tend to disagree.

It annoys me when someone promotes a product to be used in an untested and uncertified way, or misrepresents what it can or was designed to do. You can use a pair of pliers to tighten a bolt, but it often isn't the best tool for the job. To some, that is the only tool they carry. There's more than one way to skin this cat that will work.

 

[Eurob]

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

LOL - Is that "Tile Man"?

Lets break for a cheer.... It's been a while. I think Jim is trying to egg us on....

{INSERT CHEER FOR JIM HERE}​

 

[Jadnashua]

See what I mean...total disrespect. If I were them, I'd be embarrassed. Certainly not something I'd look for from someone who calls themselves a professional. That Terry allows it kind of annoys me, but it's his website.