7000sxt - Sizing For Now vs Sizing For the Future?? Rapidly Growing Family

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by Philadd, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Just bought a new house and wondering if I could get some help making sure I buy the right softener? I've done a lot of research both here and several other places and I think I understand most of what goes into correctly sizing a softener, but here's what I'm struggling with. Right now, it's myself, my wife, and our 17 month old son. We have twins on the way so given the lifespan of softeners these days I'm not sure if I should go with a smaller unit that will suit our more immediate needs or whether I should go ahead and go big now and size for a full blown family of 5. I think I've convinced myself it makes sense to go ahead and go bigger now so I've been looking at either a 2.0 or a 2.5 unit with a Fleck 7000sxt controller.

    Here are the facts regarding house and water quality.

    3800 sq ft.
    4.5 Baths

    Water sample tested at Leslie's pool supply

    Chlorine .93 ppm
    Alkalinity 108 ppm
    PH 7.7
    Hardness 354 ppm (21gpg)
    Copper .2 ppm
    Iron 0

    Given the details above I guess what I'm looking for is some advice on which direction I should go. It makes sense to me to go ahead and buy for the future but I want to make sure that there aren't any downsides to using a larger unit now when our water usage is not gong to be as great. If this is not an issue should I go with the 2.0, the 2.5, or should I go ahead and go really big with a 3.0 unit?

    I'll be ordering online in the next fews days so any advice you can offer up would be great.

    Thanks in advance.

    Phil
  2. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,821
    Location:
    Ontario California
    A softener should be sized to the application, or people count, whichever is bigger. In your case, they are fairly close if you go with a 2.5 cu. ft. system. I know several excellent companies local to you, let me know if you need some numbers for Phoenix.
  3. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Thanks so much for your response. That was what I was thinking but just wanted to Make sure before I placed the order. So here's what I'm thinking based on the options available on the website I intend to order from.

    Fleck 7000SXT Valve
    2.5 cu ft system
    18 x 40 round brine tank
    No Res-care feeder
    Hi capacity 8% cross link resin
    1.05" STD distributor
    No turbulator option
    Noryl 1" bypass (soft water loop is 1" copper)
    10ft drain tubing

    Does this all sound okay or are there any other options I should ask about? I've read several posts where gravel is discussed. Is this something that comes standard or is it extra? If extra is it something I should consider?

    Phil
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  4. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,821
    Location:
    Ontario California
    32mm distributor, 10% crosslink resin, 1" copper sweat connectors
  5. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Awesome

    Thanks!!
  6. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    One more question if you don't mind. Just checked with the site I was going to order my unit from and they don't sell the 10% crosslinked resin. They said they would reduce the price of the unit by the 8% resin they supply if I want to buy the 10% elsewhere. I've looked around and can't seem to find a good place/site to buy the 10% from. Any suggestions?

    Thanks!
  7. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,821
    Location:
    Ontario California
    8% will be fine as long as your water is not heavily chlorinated. The real problem is people claiming 8% but delivering 6% or 7%.
  8. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Chlorine is coming in at .93 ppm. How many years should I expect to get out of the 8% at this level? If its only going to get me 4 or 5 years then I might spring for the 10% now if it will get me up to the 9 or 10 year mark.
  9. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,821
    Location:
    Ontario California
    If your chlorine is over .5 ppm, I would recommend removing it. A carbon tank in front of the softener would be the best choice. Even a stacked tank design would be fine. stack.jpg

    1 ppm is the upper limit for 8% resin. Life expectancy is hard to estimate, but regardless, do you want to breath in the chlorine into your lungs in the shower, bathe in it, etc.

    A pool should be maintained at 1-3 ppm, do you really want to drink and bathe in pool water daily?
  10. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Would a 20" big blue w/carbon filter work for removing the chlorine before it gets to the softener? I had already thought about doing something like this but was a little concerned about the effect it might have on the pressure.
  11. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,821
    Location:
    Ontario California
    BB is not advisable. The flow rate both service and actual are no where near what a house would need. Even the stacked tank system is technically undersized, but it will have very little flow restriction. A BB 20" GAC filter has an approximate service flow of 1-2 GPM max, it will have a peak flow of 5-10. The filters are also very expensive to replace, and they should be replaced often. Bulk media, the type used inside of a tank is very cheap.
  12. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Okay, so here's my next question then. If I'm looking at 2.5 cubic foot system for my water softening needs how big of a carbon tank would I need to reduce the .93 ppm chlorine down to a reasonable level? Would it be another 2.5 cubic foot tank or would something smaller suffice?
  13. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,821
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Technically speaking, a large tank should be installed, but... chlorine removal is easy for GAC. Removal of other contaiminants may require considerable contact time. if you look at the specifications of GAC, it has a flow rate of 3 GPM per Cu. ft.. It is really up to you. The right way would be to match the units. That can get very expensive. The stacked tank designs save some floor space, cost, but they give you much less GAC. It will effectively remove chlorine, much better than a BB cartridge and will cause very little if any flow restriction. Here is an old picture of an install I did over 10 years ago. I recently wnet there and replaced the boards with SXT's (used to be SE). This is a dual 2.5 Cu. Ft. system (with pretty stainless jackets!) gacsoftener.jpg The GAC tank goes first, then the softener.
  14. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    A couple more questions if you don't mind. I called to order my system this morning and was told by the salesman that a 7000SXT was more than I needed for my 1" plumbing. He also said the 7000SXT is not a very reliable unit. He said the 5600SXT has a much better track record and recommended a 1.5 cubic foot system.

    Now, here are my questions:

    He's saying to go with a 1.5 cubic foot system. We have 5 people in the house and 20 grains of hardness. Am I correct in assuming that I could go with a 1.5 cubic foot system but it's going to be less efficient than a larger system that is scaled back to use less salt. The latter is appealing because at least then we have the excess capacity if we need it. The extra couple of hundred bucks between the 1.5 and the 2.5 is not an issue. I just want to make sure I make the best decision for now and for the future. Should I stick with the 2.5 system I planned on buying from the beginning? And do I go with the 7000sxt or the 5600sxt given my 1" plumbing and the issues he spoke about with regards to the 7000sxt?
  15. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,821
    Location:
    Ontario California
    The 7000SXT is our most reliable valve and the one that we stock the most of. A lot of online "water treatment companies" never actually touch the equipment, but only have the units blind drop shipped. They are more comfortable with the old technology, including the 5600SXT and electromechanical units. We still sell huge amounts of these museum pieces, they are good, solid, and reliable. A few online dealers simply dont have the feild experience with the 7000 and if they have a problem, they get lost, so it is easier to push customers to a different valve that they are more comfortable with. The 5600SXT is an excellent valve, but it is not rated for backwashing GAC tanks any larger than 10". Any company that would recommend a 3/4" valve w/ 1.5 Cu. Ft. for a 4.5 bathroom house lacks the ability to properly size a unit. It may not be the company, more the salesmans lack of knowledge.

    I would recommend a different company, preferably one that actually services equipment.

    Your original plan of a 2.5 Cu. Ft. 7000SXT shoud remain.
  16. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    On the other hand, ya can't beat a 2510.
  17. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    When should you use a gravel underbed? Is this something I should be considering?
  18. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    IMO there is no down side to a gravel underbed.
  19. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Just found out that when our house was built they bypassed the cold to kitchen sink and outside hosebibs from the main line so even with the water softener we will still have 20gpg hard water coming through the kitchen sink. The spots in the sink are driving me crazy!!! Are there any pou filters I can get for hardness specifically for the kitchen sink or should I try to find the line to sink and try to tie it back into the softened line? I understand why they did it but since we already have an ro system installed i'm not not too concerned about the additional salt in the drinking water. Also, I've read that increased hardness will foul up the ro membrane faster if its not addressed. Thoughts?
  20. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Do it right. Find the line and eliminate the bypass, or install valves to make it optional.
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