7000sxt - Sizing For Now vs Sizing For the Future?? Rapidly Growing Family

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by Philadd, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

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    Phoenix
    Okay so here's my next question. Is there a standard location for where the T to the kitchen sink would be so I don't go punching holes all over everywhere in my garage walls? Should it be somewhere near the loop for the water softener or could it really be anywhere? The house is a new build so I guess as a last resort I could try to get in touch with the company that plumbed the house if I can find out who they are?
  2. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    It's likely near the softener, but no guarantees. See if the builder or your local building official has an as-built plan they could give you a copy of. That's a good thing to have anyway.

    Remember, to be delivering unsoftened water, that line has to originate upstream from the softener. Softeners are usually installed near the point of entry of the water line into the house, so if you poke around between the softener and the POE, you might find what you're looking for. Unfortunately, maybe, since the hose bibs are also on raw water (a good idea, mostly), the upstream tap you'll find probably feeds the hose bibs, and the sink is tapped off that line way downstream. Is there a hose bib on the outside wall near the sink? It may be hard to find the source for the sink. You are probably looking at running a new water line to the sink from the most convenient source of softened water. Any cold water fixture is an eligible candidate, including the toilets, probably. In Phoenix, I'd guess your plumbing is under the slab, but it's also legal and practical to run new piping on the outside walls.Time to get creative.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  3. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

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    Location:
    Phoenix
    Good idea. Thanks
  4. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Or they run the lines outside along the side of the house, underground and enter under/in the slab where needed.

    The only way to find out is to contact the builder/plumber or dig up the main or open walls.

    IMO there should be a law against plumbing raw water to the kitchen sink in slab construction.
  5. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    True, the RO membrane will not last as long if it is fed with hard water, but the price of membranes has dropped so much in the past 25 years that is really no longer a concern. We used to try to get 5-7 years out of a membrane with pre-treatment. Now that membranes are 1/10th of the cost they used to be, annual to semi annual replacements is not a big deal. Good luck finding the kitchen sink bypass, every builder does it differently, it is usually based on cost as to how and where they bypass the cold kitchen sink. Another solution, if you have a tankless water heater, turn the temperature down to 108, and only use the hot water at the kitchen sink since it is soft. I prefer it in my own house, and take a "hot only" shower. This will also add a safety factor if you have kids or elderly for elimination of any scaldinig potential. Do not do this if you have a tank heater! They can become breeding grounds for bacteria.
  6. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Found out they split the cold line to the kitchen sink right by the main coming into the house. Unfortunately, it's on the complete opposite side of the house from where my loop is and I'd have to rip apart one of bathrooms to get to it. So it's really not worth it. We do have a tankless water heater so I think we'll only be using hot water at the kitchen sink from now on.

    On to my next and hopefully final question for you. Our softener and all of the supplies are scheduled to show up Wednesday. Wondering if you could help me out with programming the correct settings for efficiency. Here's what I'm thinking. I purposely bought a system that's a little oversized for our needs right now. Currently we have two adults and a teenage boy. Twins are on the way so eventually we will have five people. For now though it's only three. I would estimate our daily usage at ~200 gallons. 200 gallons per day x 20gpg hardness x 8 day regen = 32,000 grains. If I program my valve as a 2.0 rather than a 2.5 and set it for 8lbs of salt I think that gets me close based on some of the research I've done. Does this sound correct? Ditto, if and when you have the time could you help me out with the proper settings like I've seen you do for some other folks? I'd really appreciate it. This is really the last piece of the puzzle for me. You have all been so helpful. Without this forum I'm really not sure I would have had the courage to tackle this project on my own. It's been quite a learning experience.
  7. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

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    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    I couldn't agree more!!
  8. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    Location:
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    Is there an icemaker in the fridge? That might be a soft-water line which you might be able to get to somehow. Never give up...

    Next house you build, run a soft-cold, hard-cold, and hot-return loop to all fixtures. Then you can use solar power to have instant (and free) hot water everywhere, and choose what you want at each point of use. Also make sure there's one soft hose bib for washing the car, boat, plane, etc. A hot hose bib is handy as well.
  9. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    What unit did you get? I will gladly post the programming sheet for it.

    Congrats on the twins!
  10. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Unfortunately the T'd the refrigerator line off of the cold line under the kitchen sink. I've already re-routed the refrigerator line through the ro system so at least we have good water going to the frig now.

    Went with the 2.5 cubic foot with 7000sxt valve.
  11. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    Figures. You could have switched it over to the hot line -- I know someone who insists that ice cubes made with hot water taste better and freeze faster.
  12. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    Freeze faster? Possible due to variances in mass, gas content, and about a thousand other factors, but in general the premise is false. I think it was the mpemba effect. Dont quote me though.

    Now to the softener programming.

    7000 email 25.jpg
  13. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    I agree - mpemba effect, most likely. I'll keep THAT term handy...
  14. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    If I recall from way too many years ago, it had to do with warmer water having less mass than colder water. Same reason colder water backwashes medias so much better. Mass and density. Guess I will have something to research tonight after hockey practice.
  15. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    I think the fact that nobody has been able to explain the mpemba effect in 50 years is telling...
  16. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    hahah, I tried it as a science experiment in 5th grade. It didnt work, and I tried to do it with a lot of different variables. The colder water always won in my tests, I also concluded that it really had little practical application even if it were true since the enrgy required to heat the water up exceeded the energy saving that could be gained if it froze faster. I am sure there are more reasons or applications that the mpemba effect could be used for, but I am not coming up with much.
  17. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Thanks Ditto!! Looking forward to getting this thing up and running tomorrow.
  18. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    There's a good spy thriller by Desmond Bagley called "Running Blind". The opening paragraph really grabs you, but the underlying story is one of a small electronic gadget that seems to defy the laws of physics. It was built solely to be stolen by The Enemy and drive their top scientists nuts, wasting a lot of time, trying to figure it out. I should have paid more attention in thermodynamics.
  19. Philadd

    Philadd New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Phoenix
    The unit is getting installed tonight and I'm confident that I know everything I need to know with the exception of one thing. If I have a .25 blfc and Ditto's settings sheet has me setting my brine fill for 27 minutes how many gallons of water should I pour into the brine tank when I startup the system?
  20. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    Location:
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    I would put in 5-10 gallons of water, and after you install the system, put the valve into backwash and open the inlet valve very slowly! Just crack the valve and let the air purge out of the system. When you hear only water running to the drain, you can open the water up fully and let the system go through a complete regeneration. I would recommend sanitizing the system, but most people dont do that. A small amount of bleach in the brine tank is all that is needed. a few tablespoons will do.

    After that, you are good to go.
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