2nd floor laundry, draining concerns (pics)

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Waltah

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Okay, so we are adding a 2nd floor laundry in our 3yr old house in what was previously a bedroom. Adjacent is a full bathroom. I have partially demo'd the wall to see what I have to work with before going any further. Per code, I need 1.5" drain for the sink and the washer overflow pan. I would also need a 2" standpipe and drain for the washer itself. (my washer is a front loading HE washer).

Since I found that I do not have 2" drain available behind the wall/above floor level, I have decided to just drain the washer into the util sink (15 gallon capacity) rather than plumb it in directly. Below is my understanding on how I would accomplish this, I would appreciate any advice/concerns.

*Note - the washer and dryer will be raised on built-in/framed platforms.

pipe on top of dual san tee is VTR
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Terry

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The laundry sink per code is a 2" waste with 1.5" trap
A washer would be 2" waste with 2" trap.

I would consider finding that 2" below and coming up from that. That's a lot that can happen on a second story.
Also, no double santee. That would be a double fixture fitting.

You can't really expect any of the plumbers here to give a high five for all of that on 1.5"

Edited 3/21/2015
The "washer pan" drains outside and does not connect to the plumbing.
 
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Waltah

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so it looks like i'm going to have to locate that 2" under the floor. i was afraid of that

I was not aware that a double fixture was not allowable. what other use would the double san tee be used for?
 

Waltah

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Roger that and thank you for your time, guess I've got some work cut out for me, pun not intended!
 

Reach4

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Terry said a double sanitary tee was not permitted. He did not say a double fixture fitting was not permitted.
 

hj

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How high is the washing machine pan going to be above the floor if you can drain it into the same fitting as the lavatory drain? You will not find a 1 1/2" double fixture fitting. TEchnically a "double sanitary tee" is a special fitting that I doubt you will ever see. What you show is a sanitary cross.
 

Waltah

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Terry said a double sanitary tee was not permitted. He did not say a double fixture fitting was not permitted.

Locally it seems they only carry ABS dual fixture fittings, not PVC like my current plumbing. I know there is abs/pvc cement but i was of the understanding that it was not ideal to do this.

How high is the washing machine pan going to be above the floor if you can drain it into the same fitting as the lavatory drain? You will not find a 1 1/2" double fixture fitting. Technically a "double sanitary tee" is a special fitting that I doubt you will ever see. What you show is a sanitary cross.

Im measuring for the washing machine pan today as I will be framing the platform for both the WM and Dryer.

With the way the joists run it's going to be extremely difficult to get to the 2" branch or 3" main stack. I understand the concern with all of this being on 1.5" but the WM pan is going to be used rarely at best, at least until some type of failure of the washer. I will be using a shutoff at the supplies to the WM to limit that amount of water as well.

So really the only fixture we are adding and will use frequently will be the laundry sink, with the washer draining into it of course. I dont have plans on doing a load of laundry, draining a full tub and using both sinks simultaneously. And even still, being an HE washer it adds and drains water as needed, it doesnt dump a full load of water all at the same time.

With all this said, does anything still stand out as concerning? the only thing standing out to me is needing 2" waste for the laundry sink for code, I was sure it was 1.5" so I'll have to research that. If it is supposed to be 2", I'm up a creek so to speak. With that said, what defines a laundry sink anyways?
 

Waltah

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Also, thanks so much for the quick replies and insight, very much appreciated.

I just noticed something else, do I need to vent the laundry sink to above the double fixture fitting? It appears I've created a wet vent in my diagram.

Good grief plumbing is a pain in the bum!
 
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Waltah

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And now im reading the WM pan shouldnt be connected to sanitary, that it simply goes to the exterior of the house, down to the basement near a floor drain or the sump pit.

Anyone familiar with this?
 

hj

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That is the way it should be otherwise a WM drain backup would flood the pan and surrounding area. You mean you are discovering that "anyone can be a plumber if they have enough pipe and fittings" is just a Home Depot slogan.
 

Reach4

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And now im reading the WM pan shouldnt be connected to sanitary, that it simply goes to the exterior of the house, down to the basement near a floor drain or the sump pit.

Anyone familiar with this?

I suggest you ask locally. What works in Phoenix is not going to work in NY.
 

Reach4

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A pan draining outside in Phoenix would work, but one in Buffalo, New York would not.

And then there are codes that are not related to the laws of physics. I would not be surprised if a pan having its own P-trap is allowed sometimes and some places, and at other times/places an air gap to another drain is required. And there may be places where a trap filler would be required, and other places that would not require a trap filler. But I don't know those as hard fact.
 
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Chris Wagner

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You might already know this but I just redid our 2nd floor laundry and did a ton of research on it. The pan is only gonna really catch a small leak from inside the washer. If a hose bursts,etc you would need the entire room on a floor drain,sloped with a curb,etc. This wasn't a possibility for us, either was moving it to basement. Wife loves it 5 feet from the bedroom. Good luck
 

hj

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It is not necessarily what is "required", because any pan connected to the drain system WOULD need both trap and a trap primer, but being "to code" and being "good practice" are NOT always the same. Why would a drain line the exterior NOT work in Buffalo? The line could NOT freeze closed as long as it did not have water in it. But, in any case, if it terminated ANYWHERE other than by a connection the drain system it would be safe.
 

Jadnashua

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The output of a WM is (I think) considered grey water, and cannot be just dumped on the ground in most places. True, it shouldn't be used regularly, hopefully never, but that's not the point.
 

Waltah

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You might already know this but I just redid our 2nd floor laundry and did a ton of research on it. The pan is only gonna really catch a small leak from inside the washer. If a hose bursts,etc you would need the entire room on a floor drain,sloped with a curb,etc. This wasn't a possibility for us, either was moving it to basement. Wife loves it 5 feet from the bedroom. Good luck

We will accept the risk of a hose burst, my wife and i only turn the valves on when we are running the machine, then shut off when done. if it bursts during a load, at least we are home. if the washer leaks, the pan will pick it up and dump it down to our sump pit. the water arguments of the second floor laundry are no different than a bathroom upstairs. my opinion of course. The only thing I'm worried about at this point is noise/vibration during spin cycle.
 

Chris Wagner

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We went with the Samsung Front load models for this reason. From everything I could find these seemed to be best for vibration. If the load is off balance it will pause then restart. Our old one could shake the entire second floor, these have cut down on that. When I'm a level below I hardly can tell when its on. Also upgraded the dryer venting to rigid pipe with one of those dryer-ell 90 elbows.
 

Jadnashua

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FWIW, I also have a Samsung...that sucker is HEAVY, shipping weight way over 200#, which helps it with an unbalanced load. Plus, when starting up, it spins slowly back and forth in the weighing mode, trying to decide how much water to add and to help distribute the clothing to try to prevent most imbalances.

Typical bathrooms do not have rubber hoses supplying things that can burst which is why a WM can be more problematic. And, on a WM, they get beat on much more as the solenoid valve closes, producing pressure spikes. Those hoses are much more prone to failure than say those feeding your vanity sink, and if you had one in a shower, it would be IN the shower, and not a problem (like as a handheld - that type of hoses are not allowed inside the wall).
 
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