2 pumps in one well ??? Heat Pump and House

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by dancour, Jun 27, 2009.

  1. dancour

    dancour New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Can I install 2 submersible pumps in one 8" well. One pump for household needs and one to feed the water-to-air heat pump.

    The well produces 30 gpm at a draw down of 60'. Yje well is 220 ft deep. I want 6 gpm for the household using a 1/2hp submersible (set down at 80') and 7-12 gpm for the heat pump using a 3/4 hp set down at 100'.

    Would the 1/2 hp pump starting up wear out the wires from the 3/4 going by?

    Any suggestions appreciated.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2009
  2. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    There won't be sufficient space but, you will need more than 6 gpm in a house even if you only have one bathroom.

    You can't just pick a hp, pumps are sized in two parts, the wet end (gpm) and the motor (hp), so you need to know how many gpm at what elevation and psi, and then the last thing is you find the hp to do the job.
  3. dancour

    dancour New Member

    Messages:
    9
    2 pumps in one well

    Presently, we have a 1/3 hp @ 80' and are operating both the heat pump on stage one and house satisfactorily. I've purchased a Berkerly B15P4MS to replace the 1/3 hp but I thought 2 pumps might work: one operating at 25 psi (HP) and the other at 50 psi (house).

    As you say, space may prohibit such an installation. (But I do have a hand pump @ cylinder in the same well which I plan on removing.)
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2009
  4. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,459
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    It would be hard to get two subs to fit in the well. You can use a 15 GPM, 1/3rd HP pump in the well and a ½ HP jet pump to boost pressure to the house when needed. This way you keep a very small pump in the well for the heat pump. Changing this out to a single1 HP pump would triple your pumping cost. I have written up how to do this before but, can’t find the thread right now. Let me know if you need instructions.
  5. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,459
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    I found it!

    Another way to cut pumping cost which would be easier to control follows. I would use a 16S05-5 pump end, remove 2 impellers, and use a 1/3 HP motor. This pump would deliver 16 GPM at 50' of lift. Control this well pump with a 20 PSI Cycle Stop Valve, a small pressure tank, and a 10/30 pressure switch. After the pressure tank, one line tees off to the heat pump, another tees off to a booster pump for the house. Use about a 3/4 HP jet pump with it's own Cycle Stop Valve set at 50 PSI, and a 40/60 pressure switch.

    When the heat pump alone is running, an electric discharge valve opens, the pressure tank drains to 10 PSI, and the pump starts. The 20 PSI CSV will vary the flow to match the 12 GPM usage and maintain 20 PSI. This should cut your pumping cost to 1/3 of what the 3/4 HP is doing now. When the heat pump shuts off, the electric discharge valve closes, and the CSV slowly fills the pressure tank to 30 PSI, and the well pump is shut off.

    When the house alone is using water, the pressure will drop from 60 to 40 PSI and the 3/4 HP jet pump will start. The 50 PSI CSV will maintain 50 PSI to the house no mater the flow rate being used. This jet pump system is drawing water from the well pump system, so the pressure tank on the well pump system empties as the pressure drops from 30 to 10 PSI, and the well pump is started. The CSV on the well pump feeds exactly as much water to the jet pump booster as the house is using. Both pumps run as long as the house is using water. When the house stops using water, the CSV on the jet pump will slowly fill the pressure tank to 60 PSI, and the jet pump is shut off. Then the CSV on the well pump will slowly fill it's pressure tank to 30 PSI, and the well pump is shut off.

    When the heat pump is running, the well pump/CSV is delivering 12 GPM at 20 PSI. If the house needs water at the same time, the jet booster pump comes on, and the CSV on the well pump opens up to supply both the heat pump and the jet booster pump. Depending on the water level, you should be able to get about 18 GPM total when the house and heat pump need water at the same time. When the house no longer needs water, the jet pump system will fill it's pressure tank to 60 PSI, and the jet pump is shut off. Then the CSV on the well pump reduces the flow to 12 GPM, matching the amount used by the heat pump. Again, when the heat pump is shut off, the well pump fills it's pressure tank to 30 PSI, and both pumps stay shut off until water is needed again.

    If the water level in the well pulls down to more than 20' at high flow, you will have to stay with a ½ HP well pump and not remove impellers from the 16S05-5. Even this will cut your pumping cost to half of what they are now.
  6. dancour

    dancour New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Thanks Valveman for your detailed response … but I like the idea having 2 submersibles in one well for redundancy purposes. With a couple extra lines and valves, I could use either in case of an emergency.

    My heat pump runs off the well and I wouldn’t want to have to pull it mid winter.

    I’ve also heard that booster pumps are quite loud.

    I did find the “Wesley tool†that you mentioned in another posting but it looks expensive.
  7. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,459
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    You can't get two pumps in the same well with only 6" casing. Even using a Weslly tool you need a lot of detph of water. Maybe you could put a pump in each well, and each well dump to the other. Still need the smallest pump possible for the heat pump to keep pumping cost down.
  8. dancour

    dancour New Member

    Messages:
    9
    I made an error on the well diameter. It is 8" (not 6") and has a depth of 220' but pumps non stop 30 gpm @ 120'.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2009
  9. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,459
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    OK 2 pumps will fit inside 8" casing, but it is still a tight fit. You will have to set one pump just above the other. And if the lower pump quits, you will have to first pull the higher pump before you can pull the lower one.

    I still think one pump in each well is a better choice.
  10. dancour

    dancour New Member

    Messages:
    9
    That's a good point Valveman. I'm not looking forward to pulling my hand pump, just to replace my submersible.

    Attached Files:

  11. project_x

    project_x New Member

    Messages:
    7
    valveman,
    I know this is an old thread, but I finally am getting around to reworking my open loop/household water system. Where would I find a 20psi CSV? The lowest I seem to be able to find is a 40psi.

    Thanks,
    Rob
  12. dancour

    dancour New Member

    Messages:
    9
    An Update on 2 Pumps in one well.

    Yes, it was a tight squeeze getting the 2 pumps in one excellent 8" well. And yes, if the new 3/4 hp Berkeley, set at 100 feet dies first, I'll have to pull the 1/2 hp Franklin.

    I did enclose the Berkeley wires passing the Frankin in a 3/4 conduit to avoid wire rubbing.

    I've had a Franklin MonoDrive running the Berkeley for my heat pump and house this past year and use the Franklin as backup. With the turn of 2 valves I can switch supply lines thus allowing me to service the pump on my schedule. (It also allows me to flush filters backwards.)

    I finally got a hold of a CSV and I'm going to put it on the supply line for the Franklin and see how it runs. In my situation I would like to install it vertically on the line coming in. I'll try running it at 50 psi.

    With the wet summer we've had, the pumps haven't had much to do.
  13. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,459
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    I can get you a 20 PSI CSV but, I would use a 50 PSI valve. That way you can also use it for supplying the house. You are going to need the 1/2 HP backup pump to be able to supply the house as well, because that Monodrive is going to quit soon and leave you out of water at the most inoppurtune time. Here is a quote I got recently from a pump company with decades of experience.

    "Hello,
    We are faced with a huge vfd push here in our area unfortunately we have been caught up in it as well and now we are realizing that it is just not a good product as far as life of the components are concerned or energy wise. We have used your products in the past and now realize how much of a mistake the vfd can be for repeat business. We would like to become a distributor if possible and help promote your product as well as installing them for our coustomers.
    Thanks"
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