Don in Ohio
New Member
Hello plumbing gurus! I have been considering a solution to replacing 3 (still working) Crane Walsan toilets in our 1959-vintage home. My late father-in-law built the house — he was a mechanical engineer, and I suppose the idea of hiding tanks in the wall influenced his decision to go with the Walsan units. He satisfied his spouse by getting them in shades of pink, blue and gray. My wife and I moved into her parents house in 2003 to care for them while they were going through issues with dementia and incontinence in their later years. They have now passed on and my wife and I decided to keep living here, since we’ve fixed up just about everything else with the house and yard.
About the time we moved in, I helped my father-in-law jury-rig the ballcock assemblies by removing the worn-out and leaking brass assemblies and replacing them with some inexpensive American Standard plastic ones, called “SmartValves". They work pretty well, and only require an occasional changing of the rubber seal/washer at the top of them, and sometimes (if the washer doesn't fix the shutoff when the tank is full), I simply replace the entire SmartValve assembly. A few years ago I noticed that the replacement parts (SmartValve washers and the SmartValve units themselves) began to disappear from the shelves at Lowes and other hardware stores. I ended up buying a dozen SmartValves and a couple dozen seal/washers from a Pennsylvania site on the internet, to ensure I could keep the Walsans working as long as possible. They are indeed still working and I’ve got plenty of parts left, probably enough to last for years. On the other hand, I worry that we may be on borrowed time, as the Walsans are now over 50 years old and there may be other critical parts (e.g., the copper fill tubes or seals between the tanks and bowls) that could fail at some point. In some respects though, I like the way the Walsans flush, since there’s never much need for a follow-up flush, given the large amount of water they use.
Over the past few years, I've looked into a few European-style wall-mounted toilets as potential replacements for the Walsans (e.g., Duravit, Grohe, etc), but they use a carrier frame inside the wall that require a width of 18” or more. Unfortunately, there are cast iron vent stacks (2” and 4”) just to the sides of our Walsan in-wall tanks. To install a modern wall-mount toilet carrier frame would require tearing out portions of walls, floors and perhaps ceilings to relocate the vent stacks out of the way. Doing this for all 3 toilets would be a pretty major expense (relocate vent stacks + new framing + install new in-wall carriers + replumb supply lines + install new wall-mounted toilets + drywall work = $$$$$). As much as we’d like the look and performance of brand new modern wall-mounted toilets, we are also budget conscious (especially since I retired several years ago).
After seeking less expensive alternative solutions, I found this great website (Thanks Terry!) and see that there are a couple of wall-mounts that could work: the American Standard Glenwall pressure-assisted toilet, and the Gerber Maxwell, a non-pressure assist toilet. We have become accustomed to the splashing sounds the Walsans make while filling (the SmartValves are located near the top of the tank, and drop water to the bottom while the tank is filling), so a little noise is not an issue. But my wife and I really don’t like the much louder sound of a pressure-assisted toilet. The wife likes the idea of toilets with dual-flush options, but I don’t see that as an option for a Glenwall or Maxwell unit. Finally, compared to the amount of water used in a Walsan flush (which effectively empties a bowl of just about anything in it), anything with a 1.6 or less gallon flush would result in a big reduction in our water usage.
Bottom line is that I’d like to know if either the Glenwall or Maxwell would be a viable replacement for our Walsans. I know there would be some drywall work to cover the old access panels of the Walsans, and that the water supply lines would have to be extended from the upper right side of the Walsan tanks, to a new location at the lower left of where the Glenwall or Maxwell units would be mounted. I see that as fairly straightforward to do, but I am more concerned whether the bolt holes and waste outlet of the Walsan units would match the dimensions of the Glenwall and Maxwell units. That would make replacing the Walsan’s a fairly easy and straightforward proposition (relatively speaking!). And not having to deal with relocating vent stacks would be wonderful.
One final consideration is that one toilet is in a small powder room, and the shorter depth of the Maxwell (27” vs 29.5” for the Glenwall) would be a better fit, since the access door enters into this bathroom. Actually, it would be better to have the shorter depth for all 3 bathrooms now that I think about it. So I’m leaning towards the Gerber Maxwell from the perspective that it’s not a deep, doesn’t have a noisy air-assisted flush, and looks pretty modern. Would this be your recommendation? Is it safe to assume the 4-bolt carrier for the Walsans be reused with just installing new seals? I am pretty sure the dimensions for the bolt patterns and waste outlet match the Maxwell. Anything I should be aware of that could be of concern with this project? Or should I take the easy way out and just wait for the Walsans to develop unrepairable problems before I replace them? I've always believed in the old adage about not fixing things that aren't broken, but the wife is really not a fan of this option! Yesterday was our 35 anniversary, so I tend to try and keep her happy!
Here are pics of the 3 Walsan units (I’m sure you’ve seen these before!). Thanks in advance for reading through all this (sorry, I got a little carried away!) and for the sage advice!
About the time we moved in, I helped my father-in-law jury-rig the ballcock assemblies by removing the worn-out and leaking brass assemblies and replacing them with some inexpensive American Standard plastic ones, called “SmartValves". They work pretty well, and only require an occasional changing of the rubber seal/washer at the top of them, and sometimes (if the washer doesn't fix the shutoff when the tank is full), I simply replace the entire SmartValve assembly. A few years ago I noticed that the replacement parts (SmartValve washers and the SmartValve units themselves) began to disappear from the shelves at Lowes and other hardware stores. I ended up buying a dozen SmartValves and a couple dozen seal/washers from a Pennsylvania site on the internet, to ensure I could keep the Walsans working as long as possible. They are indeed still working and I’ve got plenty of parts left, probably enough to last for years. On the other hand, I worry that we may be on borrowed time, as the Walsans are now over 50 years old and there may be other critical parts (e.g., the copper fill tubes or seals between the tanks and bowls) that could fail at some point. In some respects though, I like the way the Walsans flush, since there’s never much need for a follow-up flush, given the large amount of water they use.
Over the past few years, I've looked into a few European-style wall-mounted toilets as potential replacements for the Walsans (e.g., Duravit, Grohe, etc), but they use a carrier frame inside the wall that require a width of 18” or more. Unfortunately, there are cast iron vent stacks (2” and 4”) just to the sides of our Walsan in-wall tanks. To install a modern wall-mount toilet carrier frame would require tearing out portions of walls, floors and perhaps ceilings to relocate the vent stacks out of the way. Doing this for all 3 toilets would be a pretty major expense (relocate vent stacks + new framing + install new in-wall carriers + replumb supply lines + install new wall-mounted toilets + drywall work = $$$$$). As much as we’d like the look and performance of brand new modern wall-mounted toilets, we are also budget conscious (especially since I retired several years ago).
After seeking less expensive alternative solutions, I found this great website (Thanks Terry!) and see that there are a couple of wall-mounts that could work: the American Standard Glenwall pressure-assisted toilet, and the Gerber Maxwell, a non-pressure assist toilet. We have become accustomed to the splashing sounds the Walsans make while filling (the SmartValves are located near the top of the tank, and drop water to the bottom while the tank is filling), so a little noise is not an issue. But my wife and I really don’t like the much louder sound of a pressure-assisted toilet. The wife likes the idea of toilets with dual-flush options, but I don’t see that as an option for a Glenwall or Maxwell unit. Finally, compared to the amount of water used in a Walsan flush (which effectively empties a bowl of just about anything in it), anything with a 1.6 or less gallon flush would result in a big reduction in our water usage.
Bottom line is that I’d like to know if either the Glenwall or Maxwell would be a viable replacement for our Walsans. I know there would be some drywall work to cover the old access panels of the Walsans, and that the water supply lines would have to be extended from the upper right side of the Walsan tanks, to a new location at the lower left of where the Glenwall or Maxwell units would be mounted. I see that as fairly straightforward to do, but I am more concerned whether the bolt holes and waste outlet of the Walsan units would match the dimensions of the Glenwall and Maxwell units. That would make replacing the Walsan’s a fairly easy and straightforward proposition (relatively speaking!). And not having to deal with relocating vent stacks would be wonderful.
One final consideration is that one toilet is in a small powder room, and the shorter depth of the Maxwell (27” vs 29.5” for the Glenwall) would be a better fit, since the access door enters into this bathroom. Actually, it would be better to have the shorter depth for all 3 bathrooms now that I think about it. So I’m leaning towards the Gerber Maxwell from the perspective that it’s not a deep, doesn’t have a noisy air-assisted flush, and looks pretty modern. Would this be your recommendation? Is it safe to assume the 4-bolt carrier for the Walsans be reused with just installing new seals? I am pretty sure the dimensions for the bolt patterns and waste outlet match the Maxwell. Anything I should be aware of that could be of concern with this project? Or should I take the easy way out and just wait for the Walsans to develop unrepairable problems before I replace them? I've always believed in the old adage about not fixing things that aren't broken, but the wife is really not a fan of this option! Yesterday was our 35 anniversary, so I tend to try and keep her happy!
Here are pics of the 3 Walsan units (I’m sure you’ve seen these before!). Thanks in advance for reading through all this (sorry, I got a little carried away!) and for the sage advice!