What toilet will fit here? Shutoff in floor.

[Veni Vidi Vici]

Hi all. I have a 1930s style bathroom with an ancient "Standard" Compact toilet which is difficult to clean, wastes water, and is prone to clogging:

I'd like to replace it with a reliable, similarly compact toilet, preferably in a traditional style harmonious with the rest of the bathroom. I had in mind something like the Toto Promenade CST423EF(G).

The problem is finding a toilet that a plumber will be able to install without too much headache or extra expense due to having to move the supply, retiling, etc.

The supply is floor mounted about 5" from the rear wall...

and the supply is about 4-1/2" from the center of the tank...

The rough in looks to be at about 11-1/2".

The Toto Promenade CST423EF has very comparable depth (26-1/8") to the existing toilet and the Promenade's height is no issue. However, it looks to me like the bottom of the Promenade extends all the way to the rear wall and therefore might not fit with the supply line mounted where it is.

What's the path of least resistance here without this turning into an expensive installation? I'm not necessarily wedded to the Toto Promenade, but the aim is to install a quality toilet in a traditional style if possible.

 

[Jadnashua]

The Promenade MIGHT fit. While it is wider in the front of your existing toilet, it looks like it tapers towards the rear, but I can't tell from their diagram how much. You may need to call them or maybe someone who has one in front of them could measure. It does go further back, but can't tell if it tapers enough to fit.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Veni Vidi Vici]

It does go further back, but can't tell if it tapers enough to fit.

Right. I can't tell either.

To clear the supply line, the Promenade base would have to have tapered enough to be no wider than 8-3/4" at 5" in from the wall. This assumes I'm already removing the supply line's escutcheon, and is still a rough guess.

The rough in is an odd 11.5" as best as I can see from measuring. I don't know how that might affect things too since the Promenade is spec'ed for a standard 12" RI.

 

[Jadnashua]

That toilet would have 3/4" behind it if the rough-in was a perfect 12", and because the smallest pipe you can use for the drain is 3", and the outlet of the toilet is about 2-1/8", you can fudge the position of the toilet a bit. You will not have an issue about your 11.5" front-back, but see if someone has one they can measure for you, or maybe check one out at a retailer to see about the width at the rear where your water supply line comes up.

 

[Reach4]

Maybe make yourself a template and check a showroom. for showrooms.

https://www.totousa.com/find-a-show...wd&country=us&sort_by=distance&sort_order=ASC

 

[WJcandee]

As the guys said, the 11.5" rough-in is absolutely no problem (you can most likely get by with as little as 11.25"). But that pipe coming out of the floor is an issue. I don't think it's a huge deal to chisel out a couple of tiles, install a 90 below floor level and run the pipe to the left a few inches and then 90 up, then reinstall or install some replacement tiles, but it certainly isn't as easy as just pulling and replacing the bowl. And you would definitely want a (real) plumber (not a handyman) to do the work.

If that's not in the cards, you might do something that I normally wouldn't recommend, but it might work for you. Go to Home Depot and measure the base of the Glacier Bay N2428E toilet. That's their $99 Elongated 1.28gpf toilet. I recently installed one for a friend at her bar and I recall thinking that the base was narrower and shorter than most Totos I have seen/handled. The toilet looks nice and has worked very well for her so far in a demanding commercial application. (We bought the cheap one because her clientele is pretty rough on the bathrooms and the last toilet had its tank smashed in less than a year. But we were both very pleasantly surprised by the fine flush and quality of this particular model. The models change pretty often, so these comments only apply to this particular model of HD toilet.)

 

[Gary Swart]

Just a note regarding the rough-in. No toilet will have exactly the rough in distance whether it's 10", 12" or 14". A toilet will never require more than it's listed rough-in", but often will need far less. I have a Toto Dartmouth and my water supply comes up much like yours. That doesn't help much with your problem, but as suggested, it may be quite doable.

 

[Veni Vidi Vici]

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your advice and knowledge. I appreciate it.

I'm glad to hear there's wiggle room with the rough in.

I'll see I can find a Toto showroom with the Promenade toilet on display and if so, I'll take some measurements. If I'm lucky enough for it to fit without moving the supply, I think it's going to be a very tight fit. Are there other toilets where the footprint ends further away from the wall like the one I'm replacing?

If I end up needing to have a plumber install a couple of 90s below the floor to move the supply a few inches to the left, and I've procured matching replacement tiles ahead of the installation, are most plumbers able to repair the floor hole and install the tiles? Or would I need to bring in a handyman/tile person separately? I'd like to have a ballpark idea of how much more altogether I'd be looking at paying if moving the supply becomes necessary.

wjcandee, I think your friend lucked out with her Glacier Bay toilet. That particular unit gets really mixed reviews at Home Depot with 1/3 of buyers saying they wouldn't recommend it to others. QC issues. I'm willing to pay more for a higher quality toilet which better matches this circa-1930s bathroom's decor. That said, I hope to avoid a job where the total toilet installation cost ends up approaching the 4 figure mark, if possible.

 

[Veni Vidi Vici]

Also, the supply line escutcheon is merely decorative, right? It's not a problem if it needs to be removed to fit the new toilet?

 

[Reach4]

Also, the supply line escutcheon is merely decorative, right? It's not a problem if it needs to be removed to fit the new toilet?

Right.

While doing work, you will want that valve replaced with a quarter-turn ball valve.

While looking, you could also see if one of the toilets has a base that would cover the empty hole. It looks like that would require a base that is 12 inches wide at that point. You could also consider getting your water supply relocated to the wall while it is being moved.

 

[Veni Vidi Vici]

Right.

While doing work, you will want that valve replaced with a quarter-turn ball valve.

While looking, you could also see if one of the toilets has a base that would cover the empty hole. It looks like that would require a base that is 12 inches wide at that point. You could also consider getting your water supply relocated to the wall while it is being moved.

Completely agree on the ball valve.

However, as far as moving the supply to the wall, wouldn't that potentially make for an even more complicated and expensive job which risks cracking and having to find a replacement for at least two different size/colors of tiles?

Ideally, I'm hoping to find a quality toilet which 1) doesn't look way out of place in this 1930s bathroom and 2) fits without this ending up becoming a $1000 toilet replacement (toilet + labor).

 

[Reach4]

However, as far as moving the supply to the wall, wouldn't that potentially make for an even more complicated and expensive job which risks cracking and having to find a replacement for at least two different size/colors of tiles?

If the wall installation required removing tiles, then I would not do that. I do presume that whoever does the install can drill tile without cracking.

To see the Totos, see http://www.totousa.com/products/toilets If you click a toilet, then Specifications, then Spec Sheet, you can see some dimensions and line drawings including front and side views. That might give you candidates. We can't know what you would find to be an acceptable style. If you use the finder, I would think Style:Classic would be a good style selection for you. Soiree might be wide enough and deep enough to cover the hole. While the Totos will sell for less than list in practice, the Soiree would to cost a lot of your budget on its own. Some others will probably have a narrow or shallow enough base to clear the existing hole.


While measuring toilets, you may find the Cadet 3 at a different local store. It is smallish and may well not be be obstructed by the current pipe. Gets good flushing reports. One potential problem is that when you lift the toilet, the tiles barely cover the the visible area. Probably the tiles continue inward, but until you lift the existing toilet, you will not know for sure.

 

[Jadnashua]

Most plumbers are not tile men, and replacing a tile, and sometimes, even cutting a hole in one isn't in the picture. Most can cut a tile, though for a hole. Depending on the age of the tile and the type, it may cut really easily. A lot of the newer porcelain stuff often requires a diamond core bit to make a hole through them...they're about as hard as sapphire, almost as hard as diamond.

I would think a call to Toto might get you the width of that toilet at the rear. 1-888-295-8134

 

[Jadnashua]

Most plumbers are not tile men, and replacing a tile, and sometimes, even cutting a hole in one isn't in the picture. Most can cut a tile, though for a hole. Depending on the age of the tile and the type, it may cut really easily. A lot of the newer porcelain stuff often requires a diamond core bit to make a hole through them...they're about as hard as sapphire, almost as hard as diamond.

I would think a call to Toto might get you the width of that toilet at the rear. 1-888-295-8134

 

[Veni Vidi Vici]

Thanks Reach4 and jadnashua.

I contacted Toto tech support this afternoon and the rep I spoke with was unable to give me more accurate dimensions on the Promenade's rear, but based on my description of the supply location he said he was skeptical about any of the Toto toilets fitting without relocating the supply line.

The bathroom wall tiles are definitely original to when the house was built around 1930. I suspect the same is true for the floor tiles, although I'm not 100% sure.

I didn't realize replacing a toilet would become this much of a project. I'm wondering if it's worth the time and expense.

 

[Jadnashua]

I didn't realize replacing a toilet would become this much of a project. I'm wondering if it's worth the time and expense.

Somewhat depends on where you live and the cost both in dollars and environment for the excess water use and performance an underperforming and potentially wasteful toilet are to you.

Porcelain tile were not very common that many years ago, so it's probably a softer tile, and even a carbide drill bit may likely drill through it easily. Won't know until you try.

I wouldn't give up hope yet...it looks like you have about 4" from the centerline to the water pipe. At the front, it's 10-1/8" wide, but does taper towards the back (it looks like it's more than an inch each side).

 

[Veni Vidi Vici]

Alright...I finally got more information and with further measuring and it looks like the Promenade will probably squeak in, clearing the floor mounted supply by barely 1/4" after removing the escutcheon.

When the plumber arrives, I'll have the toilet, wax ring/bolt kit, replacement braided connector kit at the ready.

I'd also like to have on-hand the correct 1/4 turn ball valve replacement. I looked at the existing Eastman Speedflex gate valve for any markings but couldn't find any. From the picture, could anyone tell me what valve I should get? A link or part number would help.

 

[Plumbs Away]

For the supply valve, yours has a threaded female connection. I can't tell from the picture the diameter of the water line coming out of the floor, but any hardware or big box store should have the quarter turn to fit your needs. If you give them the pipe diameter and tell them it screws onto the water line and is for a toilet, they should be able to hook you up.

 

[Veni Vidi Vici]

For the supply valve, yours has a threaded female connection. I can't tell from the picture the diameter of the water line coming out of the floor, but any hardware or big box store should have the quarter turn to fit your needs. If you give them the pipe diameter and tell them it screws onto the water line and is for a toilet, they should be able to hook you up.

Thanks! Even I can't tell the exact diameter of the water line. It looks larger than 1/2" but smaller than 3/4". Is that possible?

In any case, I'm going to pick up a caliper to be sure. I know the adjacent shower is fed by 1/2" copper because I recently had to open up a wall to repair a leaking section.

 

[Terry]

Normally you have 1/2" threads for a stop, though in Virginia I did see 3/8" being used.