i have a fleck 5600sxt (48000) softener. My brine tank is about 12x12 (14x14 at the top) and about 33 inches tall. I followed programming advice found on this forum. Set for 36k, with 8 min brine fill out of a .5 gpm. I cleaned my tank and ran it through a regen. About 4 min into fill the float stopped the water flow and I only had a 40lb bag in. How could I possibly be getting the correct amount of brine when there is usually a couple bags of salt to displace the water. I never messed with the float as that is how it came. Have silky water for a while and then got harder and stopped using salt. Brine tank was pretty hard packed which is what led me to clean it. Any help?
Float stopping brine fill???
- Thread starter Hunterrob
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That is a very small brine tank. If I presume a 12.5 inch square tank with no salt grid, on average, 4 gallons would raise the water roughly 21 inches. A salt grid should reduce that some.
Raise the float as much as you can. I have not done it, but it looks like you might be able to just tug up on the rod as it sits in the brine well.
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Rectangular works well for me for space-efficiency, but round is theoretically more robust.
If you check CL, there is often a used softener with brine tank free or cheap. If you don't respond, it will probably go to the curb.
But first, why not max out the float height and see how that goes.
If you check CL, there is often a used softener with brine tank free or cheap. If you don't respond, it will probably go to the curb.
But first, why not max out the float height and see how that goes.
Bannerman
Well-Known Member
Brine Fill is commonly the final stage of regeneration, to prepare brine for the next regen cycle. If no water was manually added to the brine tank after it was cleaned-out, then no softening capacity will have been restored during that 1st regeneration cycle. If water had been manually added, did the fluid level drop in the brine tank during Brine Draw?
Have you verified the BLFC fill rate is actually 0.5 gpm? A simple method will be to disconnect the brine line at the top of the brine tank, advance the controller to Brine Fill, and measure the volume of water discharged from the open brine line in 60 seconds.
What were the previous settings before you re-programmed? If those settings had been working, perhaps lower Capacity and Brine Fill settings could be utilized.
Same settings as before. Not sure why it quit using salt and water seemed harder.
It is sucking out the brine just fine, takes about 10 min. of the 60 min cycle. I cleaned it during that cycle, so it sucked in the brine and in that hour I emptied salt, cleaned tank, through a bag of salt back in and watched the fill process.
I have not tested fill rate to see if it is accurate, only going by the label right next to where the hose runs into the cylinder.
It is sucking out the brine just fine, takes about 10 min. of the 60 min cycle. I cleaned it during that cycle, so it sucked in the brine and in that hour I emptied salt, cleaned tank, through a bag of salt back in and watched the fill process.
I have not tested fill rate to see if it is accurate, only going by the label right next to where the hose runs into the cylinder.
Bannerman
Well-Known Member
As Brine Fill and Brine Draw was successful to and from the brine tank, perhaps the issue was a salt bridge whereby the salt had clumped and solidified directly above the fluid level in the brine tank. With the tank's tapered sides, the hardened salt clump may have been prevented from dropping to the tank bottom where it would be dissolved. A salt bridge can usually be released using a broom handle or similar to break-up the hardened mass so it can then drop and dissolve in the water below.
To verify, is the salt you are using Sodium Chloride or Potassium Chloride?
While a bridge may explain the reason for the loss of capacity even while salt was present, it doesn't explain why brine fill is being terminated by the safety float. As you state the settings have not been changed and as brine is being successfully drawn, could the float stopping brine fill be an ongoing but unrecognized issue since the softener was programmed?
A salt grid is often utilized within a small brine tank as it will provide a designated area for fluid below the platform. As salt in storage will remain elevated above the fluid level, the salt will remain dryer and less likely to bridge. The only salt usually in contact with the water will be within the grid's open support legs which will refill with dry salt from above as the salt within each leg is dissolved.
To verify, is the salt you are using Sodium Chloride or Potassium Chloride?
While a bridge may explain the reason for the loss of capacity even while salt was present, it doesn't explain why brine fill is being terminated by the safety float. As you state the settings have not been changed and as brine is being successfully drawn, could the float stopping brine fill be an ongoing but unrecognized issue since the softener was programmed?
A salt grid is often utilized within a small brine tank as it will provide a designated area for fluid below the platform. As salt in storage will remain elevated above the fluid level, the salt will remain dryer and less likely to bridge. The only salt usually in contact with the water will be within the grid's open support legs which will refill with dry salt from above as the salt within each leg is dissolved.
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I use sodium chloride. It didn’t seem like a salt bridge, more like the whole brine tank had just become a big solid pack of salt. I was told to fill the salt high enough to be above the water, is that correct?
I guess I don’t know if the float has always stopped the water, but I do know my water is not as silky smooth as it was.
Can you just buy the grid for the bottom without buying a whole new brine tank?
I guess I don’t know if the float has always stopped the water, but I do know my water is not as silky smooth as it was.
Can you just buy the grid for the bottom without buying a whole new brine tank?
Try raising the float to the max, and see if that cures your problems by itself.
If you want to experiment, after the the BD cycle completes, and during RR, pour 4 gallons of water down the brine well. Take a look. That's what 4 gallons looks like. Measure with a dipstick, such as a dowel rod or a yardstick.
During BF that follows, you will probably be limited by the float valve.
If you want to experiment, after the the BD cycle completes, and during RR, pour 4 gallons of water down the brine well. Take a look. That's what 4 gallons looks like. Measure with a dipstick, such as a dowel rod or a yardstick.
During BF that follows, you will probably be limited by the float valve.
So I tested brine fill, it is accurate at .5 gpm, I think I found the problem. The salt at the bottom is down to a really fine size. It gets into the 4” tube and seems to plug up the bottom. So the tube fills faster activating the float, and doesn’t suck all the water from the rest of the tank. What can I do to prevent that?
That's pretty wild. Good find. Are there slots in the brine tube? Maybe adding a bunch of small holes would enhance the water flow.
What is your salt? Morton Solar, Diamond-Crystal pellets, rock salt, or what?
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Eric Wesson
New Member
Funny this follows right on the heels of my question about proper brine level to avoid salt sludge in the bottom. Seems to me a salt grid would help with this problem.
I’ve been using Morton pellets. There are slots in the bottom of the tube but evidently they are not cutting it.
Wouldn’t a grid on the bottom do the same thing by just letting the sludge clog those holes? Try a different salt maybe?
Wouldn’t a grid on the bottom do the same thing by just letting the sludge clog those holes? Try a different salt maybe?
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
Salt grids do not tend to prevent the problem you are talking about. Salt grids are really only designed for allowing smaller brine tanks to be used on larger systems. They can create their own unique problems including failed grids, dirty brine tanks, difficult to clean etc. In your case a brine grid would be advisable. I would also recommend using extra large solar salt if it is available locally and is relatively clean. I would also recommend sanitizing your brine tank annually.
Bannerman
Well-Known Member
Salt itself should all dissolve and leave no residue, but water softener salt will not be 100% pure due to environmental contaminates. Pelletized salt will often incorporate binders so the fine salt particles will continue to hold their formed shape. As binders and other contaminants are not necessarily water-soluble, a residue will remain and need to be periodically removed manually.
The solar salt Ditttohead recommended, will not incorporate binders.
The solar salt Ditttohead recommended, will not incorporate binders.
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
no salt is 100% pure. 99.6 is common since it is a naturally occurring mineral with some minor contaminants. Simply clean your brine tank every few years. Since salt is so expensive to ship, it is usually sourced locally or it is brought in by the ship load from some larger salt manufacturing facilities. Some is mined, other is solar evaporated. I used to visit the Guerro Negro salt facility in Baja. They manufacture salt for one of the largest names in the salt industry. You can see by the picture that this place is one of the largest, if not the largest salt facility in the world.
Pellets are basically made from the "scrap" salt that does not fit into the granular or the larger crystal size. They simply compress the odd sized stuff into pellets so that they have less waste. It is made from the same salt so the impurities can be just as high. Mined salt tends to be a little less pure but not always.
As to the crack, no worries. So long as salt does not get into the float area.
Pellets are basically made from the "scrap" salt that does not fit into the granular or the larger crystal size. They simply compress the odd sized stuff into pellets so that they have less waste. It is made from the same salt so the impurities can be just as high. Mined salt tends to be a little less pure but not always.
As to the crack, no worries. So long as salt does not get into the float area.
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