Water Treatment Recommendations

[Nutiz9]

I recently had my well water tested by a local water treatment company. We moved into the house about 2 years ago and have always had scale in the dishwasher and some brown staining in the toilets (much worse in the tanks). We are finally looking to fix these issues and based on feedback I've seen in many of the other posts here, I welcome any input/recommendations from the pros on this forum. Here is some more background information and the water test results I received.

- The previous Owner had a new well installed in 1982. The total depth of the well is 945 feet. The paperwork says the pump yield is 6 gpm. I calculated a little over 5 gpm using the bucket method right after the pressure tank.
- The previous Owner had a WX250 pressure tank (40/60), then a Culligan P5A Standard Duty Sediment Filter (5 microns), then a resin tank with no control valve and an unknown media. Picture of the set-up and a dirty filter attached. The filter gets coated in a brown slimy film after awhile. I've been changing it every ~3 months.
- All plumbing is 3/4"
- We are a family of 4 (including 2 toddlers currently) with 2.5 baths

Results at Pressure Tank (untreated):

Hardness: 13 gpg
pH: 7.51
Alkalinity: 4.68 gpg
Chlorides: 14 gpg
TDS: 624 ppm
Iron: 3.32 ppm
Turbidity: 44.2 ntu
Sulphates: 3.39 gpg
Iron Algaes: Light

Results at Kitchen:

Hardness: 13 gpg
pH: 7.55
Alkalinity: 4.68 gpg
Chlorides: 14 gpg
TDS: 641 ppm
Iron: 0.12 ppm
Turbidity: 2.09 ntu
Sulphates: 3.51 gpg
Iron Algaes: None

1. I'm not sure if the test results above are detailed enough for recommendations. I've seen KAR Labs Kit-90 and NTL Well-Check recommended here. If additional testing is required, the Kit-90 looks to be more reasonably priced. Is there any reason not to use this one? Also, where should the sample be taken from if needed?
2. Whatever solution is recommended, I am concerned about the backwash rate required by the treatment equipment vs. what our well pump produces. Also concerned about the pressure drop through the entire system.
3. The water treatment company recommended an upgraded filter (4"x10"), to leave the unknown resin tank in place (attributed it to iron removal based on results), and then add a 48k water softener with a Res-Up Kit. I definitely do not want to leave the unknown tank in place as there is no way to backwash, clean, replace the media. I assume it will just fail on its own overtime.

Let me know if you need additional information and thanks in advance for your help/time!

 

[Bannerman]

Any supplier or installer information indicated on the pressure tank and/or media filter? If so, perhaps they will have a record of the media type that was installed.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Mialynette2003]

You are wise to be concerned about the flow rate. Some medias would be too heavy to properly backwash on your well. Carbon would be the lightest media to remove the iron but that is after chlorination. I have used BIRM effectively here in Florida to remove iron. You might want to call some local water treatment companies to find out what they use in colder water.

 

[Nutiz9]

Bannerman - unfortunetly there is no information other than the tank manufacturer and nothing on the filter. I should point out that I don't know for sure the tank has media in it, but assume it does, otherwise why install it.

Mialynette - yes, agreed - that is what I'm concerned about too. I have had three other local companies check the water and all have just recommended adding a water softener (most want to remove the existing tank though), but I feel like they are just trying to sell and not looking at the full picture which is why I came here to hopefully get some more insight and unbiased recommendations.

Thanks again!

 

[Reach4]

When you do your bucket test, is that water being drawn from the drain valve on the tank tee (at pressure tank)? During that test, while the pump is running, does the pressure rise, fall, or hold its own? If the pressure rises while drawing 5 GPM, there is more water available than you are drawing. You might want to try a 2-bucket test where a helper is simultaneously filling another bucket from an outside faucet.

Usually your outside spigots do not get their water through your filtering. I don't see that anything tees off before your cartridge filter. The cartridge filter may be adding backpressure. A 20x4.5 would be expected to have about 1/2 the backpressure of a 10x4.5.

Your fairly heavy iron should have more than a softener. My iron+H2S filter uses Centaur Carbon, which is a fairly light media. My 10x54 tank is backwashed with 5 GPM. It is very effective for me, but my iron is significantly lower than yours. The system sellers said it was good for as much as 15 ppm of iron. My reason for getting it was mainly the sulfur, and I got it based on a friend who had previously bought that system. It brings my iron level down below the 0.01 ppm test sensitivity. A surprise bonus is that it dropped arsenic from 0.006 to below the 0.002 test sensitivity.

There are many "catalytic carbon" offerings. They are not all the same. Some may be the same. I don't know.

Another system that works effectively against iron, as well as other stuff is H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) or chlorine injection followed by a contact+settling tank. That part does not use backwashing at all. It is followed by an activated carbon tank for residual H2O2 or chlorine that does get backwashed at rate around what Centaur Carbon uses. The settling tank should have a blowout port on the conical bottom where the settled rust is drained out.

 

[ditttohead]

Considering your water report, I would highly recommend spending a few dollars now and be sure it works. A softener is not an appropriate treatment method for higher levels of iron such as yours but it will work. It is not very efficient and with the pH, you will have some fouling of the media unless you reduce the iron significantly first.

A H2o2 injection system, contact tank, Katalox light, and a softener would be ideal but it will be a little bit of maintenance and slightly more expensive than other methods.

There are many other system designs that are simpler and cheaper but they will not work as well and will not last as long. We develop, design, and assemble dozens of different systems for iron reduction. Every company has their marketing to claim theirs is the best way. When it comes to iron reduction it is simply a matter of compromises. Simpler and cheaper = less effective and shorter life.

A softener after the iron reduction system will help to reduce the iron levels to trace amounts and reduce hardness significantly. All of your existing equipment should be disposed of... not worth reusing.

 

[Nutiz9]

Reach4 - yes flow test is being done at the pressure tank right after the T via a hose bib. Unfortunetly, the outdoor hose bibs are currently installed after the filtration equipment so I'm not sure I can do the double bucket test. I plan to re-pipe these before the filtration after making the change. I will read up on the Centaur Carbon - thanks for the information!

Dittohead - thanks for your input. I read up the best I could on this type of set-up and I have a couple of questions if you have the time:

1. Can my pump GPM (somewhere between 5 and 6 GPM) properly backwash the Katalox Light?
2. How much tinkering is required with the H202 injection system to get the right amount? Is there a lot of maintenance with the system and to keep making sure it is delivering the right ratio?
3. I do not have a floor drain near by, so purging the contact tank could be an issue. How long and how often do you recommend purging? The softener was going to be piped into the ceiling and about 30' away and tie-into the washing machine drain.
4. I've read that the H202 can get expensive overtime. While I understand it may be the ideal solution, I guess I need to try to do a life cycle analysis of just a softener vs. this type of system. If I just got with a softener to deal with my issues you mentioned it will work, but may not be the best solution/most efficient and overtime it will foul. Assuming I use a resin cleaning kit with every regeneration, do you have a feel for how long it will take for the resin to potentially foul and need replacement? If I can get a decent number of years out of it, maybe it makes sense to go this route and just replace the resin periodically. Unless it really just won't be effective at all at removing my 3.32 PPM of iron. Sorry, I don't know enough about the two different options, so please forgive me if this is a stupid question or should never be considered.
5. Where would you rank just using a softener in the "When it comes to iron reduction it is simply a matter of compromises. Simpler and cheaper = less effective and shorter life." spectrum? Is there something in between this and the H202 injection/contact/KL/softener set-up?

Thanks again!

 

[Reach4]

1. Can my pump GPM (somewhere between 5 and 6 GPM) properly backwash the Katalox Light?

It would be enough for a 9 inch tank, and maybe a 10. I think you want about a 30 to 35 percent bed expansion. The backwash GPM requirement is a function of the cross-sectional area.
Is 9 or 10 inch tank enough? It is a function of how much in-service flow you have in use. Having less than the prescribed amount, you should would still be better than not having the media. It's too bad that you can't get a 9x72 inch tank as a standard item (AFAIK). A 9x48 tank would hold 1 cubic ft with 50% freeboard, and a 10x54 would be 1.5 cubic ft with 50% freeboard. 50% freeboard means that the free space at the top is half of the height of the media below.

KL calculator has been moved to a backup spot:
http://watchwater.de/Backup/systems/kl_system.php
I think it is suspected, so they demoted it. It seems a bit pessimistic.

3. I do not have a floor drain near by, so purging the contact tank could be an issue. How long and how often do you recommend purging?

I have never seen it, but I picture a slurry/mud. I would expect you could drain into a bucket. A bucket of wet rust has to take a long time to accumulate, I would think. Suppose you put the contact tank on a stand like they sell for water heaters? That would let you get your bucket under there easily.

 

[ditttohead]

Excellent questions, unfortunately the answers will be more difficult.

1. Can my pump GPM (somewhere between 5 and 6 GPM) properly backwash the Katalox Light? The system will typically be installed after the storage tank which should give you a good amount of extra water added to the 5-6 gpm. A 10" tank is typically set to 7 GPM backwash rate.
2. How much tinkering is required with the H202 injection system to get the right amount? It is a simple math equation so very little tinkering. If we have a known flow rate from the pump, then we simply set the pump and the dilution to a predetermined amount and it maintains itself. Is there a lot of maintenance with the system and to keep making sure it is delivering the right ratio? Replace the pump tube every year or so. Very easy to replace, less than 5 minutes.
3. I do not have a floor drain near by, so purging the contact tank could be an issue. How long and how often do you recommend purging? Weekly for a few seconds is usually adequate. You could do it without the contact tank, it just may not be as effective and I prefer to have the iron sludge in a cheap and simple contact tank rather than an expensive filtration system., The softener was going to be piped into the ceiling and about 30' away and tie-into the washing machine drain.
4. I've read that the H202 can get expensive overtime. While I understand it may be the ideal solution, I guess I need to try to do a life cycle analysis of just a softener vs. this type of system. If I just got with a softener to deal with my issues you mentioned it will work, but may not be the best solution/most efficient and overtime it will foul. Assuming I use a resin cleaning kit with every regeneration, do you have a feel for how long it will take for the resin to potentially foul and need replacement? If I can get a decent number of years out of it, maybe it makes sense to go this route and just replace the resin periodically. Unless it really just won't be effective at all at removing my 3.32 PPM of iron. Sorry, I don't know enough about the two different options, so please forgive me if this is a stupid question or should never be considered. H2o2 is slightly more expensive than chlorine but it comes in a higher % of solution and you need less to achieve the same results so cost is actually very similar. I do recommend buying it in bulk because shipping fluids is expensive. You can also switch from H202 to Chlorine at any time. Chlorine has byproducts, h2o2 reverts to oxygen. Resin fouling will start immediately and accumulate over time. Not only that but you will have to use considerably more salt, and you will have to set the system to a minimal efficiency setting. High efficiency and iron simply don't play nice together. Citric acid in the brine tank will be needed to reduce this fouling potential.
5. Where would you rank just using a softener in the "When it comes to iron reduction it is simply a matter of compromises. Simpler and cheaper = less effective and shorter life." spectrum? Is there something in between this and the H202 injection/contact/KL/softener set-up? Definitely. Many options are available including air regeneration. I am not a fan of this but it does work. A simple inline venture air injection module ahead of your pump storage tank and a small contact tank (or no contact tank and a KL system ahead of the softener will likely give excellent results. It is also considerably cheaper and simpler. It usually works but many customers find additional oxidant injection necessary.