Water Softener Sizing Help

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by WEYERSERV, Jan 20, 2014.

  1. WEYERSERV

    WEYERSERV New Member

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    Hi, newbie to water softeners. Did some online research, but the sizing "calculators" were all over the board, and then I came across this forum -- so I would love your assistance.

    - 4 people in the house (2 adults and two kids)
    - house is 2100 sq/ft
    - 2.5 baths (no dual shower heads, but may be getting one in one of the bathrooms in the future)
    - standard number of water appliances (dishwasher, washer, etc...)
    - 20 gpg water hardness

    What water softener system do you recommend & what size? I'm leaning towards to Fleck valve based on my limited online research.

    Thanks!!
  2. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    What pipe size? In general, a 2 cu. ft. 7000SXT system would be ideal for your application.
  3. WEYERSERV

    WEYERSERV New Member

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    3/4" pipe

    What capacity based on the info I provided? 48000?

    What's the difference between the 7000 SXT and 2510SXT? Would you recommend one over the other?
  4. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

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    If you have significant iron, that could affect calculations. Do you get orange deposits inside your toilet tanks? If so, you should measure your iron.
  5. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    The capacity is determined by a a couple of factors.

    general guidelines are as follows:

    4 people x 65 gallons per person per day = 260 gallons per day x 20 grains = 5200 grains per day x 7 days between regenerations = 36,400 grain actual capacity system. A standard 1.5 cu ft system has a real world capacity of 36,000 grains even though it is called a 48,000 grain capacity system.

    The other item to consider is flow rate. 2-1/2 baths would usually lean toward a larger system size for less flow rate reduction. In all honesty, the 1.5 Cu. ft. system would work just fine, but I prefer to slightly oversize systems than undersize them so a 2 cu. ft. would be my recommendation.

    The 2510SXT and the 7000SXT are both top of the line valves. Both have their pluses and minuses. It has been discussed in these forums many times. You cant go wrong with either valve.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  6. WEYERSERV

    WEYERSERV New Member

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    No iron issues.
  7. WEYERSERV

    WEYERSERV New Member

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    So, if I understood your explanation correctly, I'd be fine with a 1.5 cu ft 48000 grain capacity system, correct? I'll look through the forums to see if I can convince myself one way or the other between the 2510SXT and the 7000 SXT.
  8. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The average water use in gallons per day per person is 60 so 4*60 gals/person/day= 240 * 20 gpg= 4800 * 8days= 39K / 3333 grains per lb salt efficiency = 11.7 rounded to 12 lbs. 39,000/20 = 1950 gallons between regenerations but, you need a 24 hr (1 day) reserve capacity (unless you have variable reserve on the control valve) so 1950-240 = 1710 gals or rounded down to 1700 gallons on the meter.

    A 2.0 cuft (mistakenly called a 64K, max K is 60K @30 lbs; salt efficiency of 60,000/30= 2000 grains per lb) @ 12lbs regenerates 40K and 40,000/3333 (grains per lb salt efficiency) = 12lbs (or 6 lb per cuft). Plus you get 13 gpm constant SFR. In my opinion that is a better choice than a 1.5 cuft. A 48K has a max K of 45,000 @ 15lbs/cuft (22.5 lbs) which is 2000 grains per lb salt efficiency and you need 39K. You get less salt efficiency and a SFR of 12 gpm with a 1.5 cuft.
  9. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

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    I'm going to side with Gary on the 2.0 cu/ft choice but you can see the disparity in how the calculation is effected by what number you put in for water use per person. I have seen anywhere from 50 gpd to 85 gpd but in the end, only you can decide whether you are a heavy use family or light use family. I doubt that I personally use more than maybe 20 gallons a day but I learned to take a military, 3 minute shower years ago. Teenage daughters will screw your calculations all to hell too if you don't limit shower time.
  10. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    Agree on the 2 cu. ft, and as to daughters using too much water, I have a tankless Renai, and it is set to 108 degrees. In order to get a hot shower, you have to turn the shower valve to full hot. I set the Renai to shut the water off after 15 gallons. :) Problem solved.
  11. WEYERSERV

    WEYERSERV New Member

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    Gary, so I should be ok with a 5600SXT 64K, or should I go with a 7000SXT 64K? Additionally, are you guys advocates of upgrading the resin or would I be ok with the 8% crosslink? Sorry to appear dense - lots of info!
  12. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    IMO the 5600 is a better choice for the guy that wants to do any repairs himself. That's because the 5600 is easier to work on and has no need for special tools like the 2510 and 7000 do.

    From what you have said, you will be fine with 8% regular mesh resin.
  13. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    The 7000 and 5600 both use "special tools" for rebuilding, but they are not needed for either valve. 5600 uses stuffer tool 12763, the 7000 uses 12763-10. The only difference is the spacer stuffer side, the OD of the seals are the same for both valves so the seal stuffer side is the same. In my video below, I use the 7000 tool once to put a spacer in, but that was because the spacer was on the tool for a video I was doing for another company and I just grabbed it and put it in. The real function of the tools is to ensure proper seating of the seals, not the spacer. Trust me, the tool is not needed.

    The 2510 does not require the special tool to rebuild, but it sure makes repairs a lot easier. I wont do the 2510, 2700, 2750, 2900 1500 rebuild without the proper stuffer tools, it takes to long and requires some fancy needle nose pliers and flat head screwdriver work. The clack also has a special tool that is not needed but it sure makes rebuilding a lot easier.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
  14. WEYERSERV

    WEYERSERV New Member

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    I went ahead and ordered the Fleck 5600 SXT 64K capacity with gravel underbedding. From what i've read, online dealers tend to provide settings that are fairly inefficient - what would your recommended settings be for my setup? Along those same lines, sizing calculations are normally based on # of people and estimated daily water usage...two of our 'people' are under the age of 5. How does this impact the settings?
  15. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    You will be very happy with the 5600SXT! It is a great valve and will last you for decades if serviced properly. I will post settings tomorrow for it. Congrats!
  16. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Yeah, maybe it's just me, I'd think someone doing a video on rebuilding a control valve wouldn't use a special tool while telling everyone they don't need the tool!

    Question is why the spacer was on the special tool to start with, and where was the spacer that was supposedly just removed from the valve in the video... and why it wasn't picked up instead of the tool with the spacer on it that was used in another video... I guess the other valve is minus a spacer.

    Also, when someone says "trust me" or, "to tell you the truth..." or my favorite one, "I wouldn't lie", I have learned to have doubts about everything they say.

    BTW, the Clack tool is a wrench to use on the drive end cap. A common screw driver or large Channel Lock type pliers work as well, and there are pictures in the Clack manual showing how to use the screw driver; although I included the wrench with every Clack valve I sold. There is no acceptable replacement for Fleck's special tools unless you make them yourself and that is fairly easy for the 5600 but not the rest. That is due to the 5600 seals and spacers going in/out vertically where all the other valves are horizontal.
  17. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    LOL, dont feed the troll! :)

    Ignore the second guide, Reach noticed a typo, thanks!

    Now for a programming guide,
    2 cu ft 56sxt.jpg

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 29, 2014
  18. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

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    I have the tools for both Fleck and Clack somewhere in the shop.......or the van.......or the shed out back.......or maybe I tossed them. I never used them much anyway.
  19. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    I never use the tools on the 5600, 7000, 9100, but I do have them. Someone just cant give up harping that on the video that the tools was used in my video, sadly they dont even understand it was the spacer stuffer, the actual tool that is need is the seal stuffer, not the spacer stuffer, lol. The spacer stuffer is just a nice tool for assemblers that have to put these things together all day.

    Speaking of special tools, I just got a new tool for seal removing, best tool i've found for it so far.

    [​IMG]
  20. WEYERSERV

    WEYERSERV New Member

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    Thanks for the programming instructions! Do I need to alter anything based on the following actual current usage: 20gpg hardness, 130 to 150 gallons per day of actual usage (2 of the 4 people are under the age of 5). I would like to program it for salt efficiency if possible.

    If I average on the higher end of the daily water usage (150), that would put me at 3000 Daily Grains of Capacity and 24000 Total Grains of Capacity needed for 8 days until regeneration (including a 1-day reserve).

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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