Undersized Kinetico?

[TomTank8]

I need some advice. Last year, I had a Kinetico 2060 installed in my house. I knew nothing about water softeners and thought Kinetico to be a solid product. Since then, my water has always had a tint of yellow and a darker yellow right before regen. The softener has a 5 disc. I am wondering if my system is undersized or if there was something else being missed by the Kinetico person.

My water quality as measured by Kinetico

• Hardness:5.0gpg
• Iron:5.0ppm (High- 95% Ferrous)
• Manganese:0.779ppm
• pH:6.6
• TDS:88ppm (Total Dissolved Solids)
• Clarity:90% clear-minor colloids

I have 8 people in my house with 6 over the age of 16.

In addition to the softener, I have a .5 micron whole house filter and a carbon backwash filter in that order. There is not a prefilter on the softener. With our water usage, the system is backwashing 2-3x's a day.

What do think?

 

[Reach4]

Is that carbon GAC?

If GAC, you could add a chlorine or peroxide injection pump with a vortex mixer, followed by a big contact tank. That would feed into the backwashing GAC filter. The .5 micron filter should go after the backwashing filter.

Alternatively, you might be able to convert your GAC filter to Katalox Light to deal with the iron if your backwashing tank was big enough.

If your carbon is catalytic carbon, how old is the media? Did it work well to begin with?

After you handle the iron first, your softener will have a much easier job to do. I don't know your softener, but I know that a softener is not a good way to handle 5 ppm of iron unless you are going to put a lot of work cleaning out the iron regularly and the softener is big enough. You will be much better off getting rid of the iron before the softener.


If your 0.5 micron filter is the first thing after the pressure tank, it is a wonder it does not clog up quickly.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[TomTank8]

I am not sure if it is a GAC or not. I will have to ask the Kinetico guy.
My system setup is pressure tank, Kinetico 2060, .5 micron whole house filter and the carbon tank. The carbon filter was changed last month.
The .5 whole house filter does clog up every two weeks so I am spending a pretty good amount each month.
So the softener needs to be bigger in order to remove the iron - especially at 5ppm?

 

[Reach4]

1. http://www.watercenterplaza.com/sites/default/files/products/Datasheet_Kinetico_2060s_OD.pdf would be the datasheet for your softener, and it looks like you have two tanks, each with 0.7 cuft of resin.

See http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/sizing.php for a nice sizing calculator. That calculator may under-estimate the effects of the iron, and it certainly presumes regular extra cleaning with Iron Out etc. I would also use the special iron treating salt. But it would be even better if the softener did not have to handle all of that iron.

2. is is possible that your iron is 0.5 ppm rather than 5 ppm? Few would use a softener for 5 ppm iron. If I had your system, I would add something between the pressure tank and softener to take out the iron. I sent a message to that effect; click Inbox above.

 

[TomTank8]

Thanks for the information. I am not sure if I have a 2060OD but a regular 2060s.
Iron is definitely 5ppm - I had him test it again yesterday.
So I am up against the point of what a water softener can handle with my iron level? Also, with the amount of water we use per day (8 people x 60 gal) = ~480 gallons, my assumption that this system is either not right or undersized for me is correct?

 

[TomTank8]

A few more points worth mentioning. My well pump was just replaced a few months ago. I have only been in this house for 3 years and prior to the Kinetico system I had a single tank system with Fleck 5600. It worked ok but was really old and I wanted a metered softener since my wife works nights at home.

 

[Bannerman]

Water softeners are best at softening water whereas an iron/manganese filter should be utilized for an iron/manganese condition especially at the levels you experience.

While a softener can remove a measure of iron & manganese, 5 ppm iron is high and removal by a softener would be inefficient in salt use as each ppm iron is equivalent to 4-5 grains hardness + 2-3 grains for each ppm manganese.

In addition, iron will foul the resin bed without extra manual maintenance. Although your water is slightly acidic which helps with cleaning the resin, periodic ongoing treatment with an acid based resin cleaner (ie: Iron-out or similar) is usually necessary to clear away iron deposits, even when using salt containing iron removal additives.

A separate iron reduction system is advisable even with far less than 5 ppm. As mentioned above, Katalox Light is a newer, effective and a highly recommended iron/manganese/sulfur reduction media but there are other methods also such as chlorine injection. Once the iron/manganese is removed prior to the softener, the frequency for regeneration should be reduced with your existing softener equipment.

 

[thewatersoftenerblog.com]

I need some advice. Last year, I had a Kinetico 2060 installed in my house. I knew nothing about water softeners and thought Kinetico to be a solid product. Since then, my water has always had a tint of yellow and a darker yellow right before regen. The softener has a 5 disc. I am wondering if my system is undersized or if there was something else being missed by the Kinetico person.

My water quality as measured by Kinetico

• Hardness:5.0gpg
• Iron:5.0ppm (High- 95% Ferrous)
• Manganese:0.779ppm
• pH:6.6
• TDS:88ppm (Total Dissolved Solids)
• Clarity:90% clear-minor colloids

I have 8 people in my house with 6 over the age of 16.

In addition to the softener, I have a .5 micron whole house filter and a carbon backwash filter in that order. There is not a prefilter on the softener. With our water usage, the system is backwashing 2-3x's a day.

What do think?

Yes that Kinetico system is way too small (2/30k tanks). With my calculations the system is running every day if not more often. I believe a 5 disc is 250 gallons on a 60. At minimum 8 people will use close to 400 gpd. So yes it is undersized for your home and water chemistry. It should have been a K100 especially with 5ppm of iron. With high iron (5ppm) you are most likely getting iron residual through the system. There simply is not enough contact time to remove the iron with the 2060 system. I would recommend an iron filtration (air oxidation) system before the water softener to remove all the iron. Then the 2060 water softener would be sufficient for the hardness and water usage. you may want to consider rebedding the water softener also when adding an iron filter to assure you have iron free water. If I understand your system explanation the filter and carbon tank are AFTER the water softener? Kinetico systems should always have a filter before the softener. The valve is very susceptible to sediment/scale in the water.

 

[TomTank8]

I have read the posts and have done the calculations and still not sure what size I need or if I should just insist on an Iron Filter. My Kinetico guy has come back to say that he would like to upgrade the system to a 2100s with SST-60 resin. He indicated that it will give more contact time and a bit higher flow rate.

 

[Reach4]

Iron system.

 

[Mialynette2003]

I would say the Kinetico guy missed something if you have 5 ppm of iron. He must have been sick the day they taught iron removal. If your iron is that high, you should put in some sort of iron filter before the softener.

 

[ditttohead]

Iron Removal before the softener. Softeners are effective at removing iron but at an extreme efficiency loss. Each PPM of iron that a softener removes is the equivalent of removing 85 ppm of hardness. Your system is undersized but regardless, using a softener for iron removal is one of the reasons softener bans get enacted. There are less efficient ways to remove iron, but not many.

 

[Mialynette2003]

There are less efficient ways to remove iron, but not many.

Did you mean to say "more" efficient?

 

[ditttohead]

Nope, it reads "but not many" ie: I don't know of a less efficient way to remove iron. Softeners work, but are not a good solution in most applications.

 

[Mialynette2003]

Nope, it reads "but not many" ie: I don't know of a less efficient way to remove iron. Softeners work, but are not a good solution in most applications.

I got it this time. I just read it differently the first time.