types of Plastic pipe available for deeper wells

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by Roger9698, Jan 11, 2009.

  1. Roger9698

    Roger9698 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Hi there, my old well is crapping out at 300 ft and therefore I am pulling the liner and drilling deeper and want to replace the galvanized pipe with plastic pipe (easier to pull without a crane etc) ..what types of plastic pipe are on the market, with maximum psi ratings ?
    Stats..Max flow rates 5 gpm and I am hoping max pumping elevation will be 400 ft (400 divided by 2.3 ft/psi = 175 psi ?) not including pressure tank set at 50 psi..is there plastic out there that can handle a pipe wall pressure when pumping of 175-200 psi? if I hang the pump on stainless wire, have a check valve at the top of the well and pump into an open discharge cistern while the pump is working? is there plastic which can handle this scenario? thanks for your help, roger
  2. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Forget the cable and get yourself some 200 psi poly pipe and some extra long barbed fittings.

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
  3. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Forget the extra check valve also.

    bob...
  4. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Many tens of thousands of pumps that deep are set on PE pipe rated at 160 psi. because they were installed up to 45 years before 200 psi pipe was invented around the mid to late 1990s.

    Your pump moves water from the static or pumping level water level in the well, and only from the depth of the pump if it falls to the pump's level; which the vast majority of wells will never allow.

    So sch 40 or 80 PVC or 160 or 200 psi rated PE pipe. The higher the rating, the smaller the ID of the pipe, the more friction loss and the higher the velocity. Pressure loss and high velocity are not good.

    No safety rope/wire, check valve or torque arrestor but use cable guards about every 15-20 feet and tape the cable between them and the first one just above the pump.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2009
  5. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    If you want to save your pump motor, you need to install a torque arrestor no more than 18" above the pump. Wire guides only need to be installed every 40 feet. The wire needs to be taped directly on the top and bottom of the wire guide so the guide doesn't shift at all. You should also tape your wire every 5 to 10 feet.

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
  6. Roger9698

    Roger9698 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    follow up on plastic pipe options

    Thanks guys for ideas..up until now, on my other well, I have ben using blue poly pumping from 300 ft (static level) with pump at 415 ft..total well depth @ 620ft)
    Local pundits have said this should not work ..but doing well..no torque arrestor or wire guards but tapped every 5 ft..
    Question: 1) having never put in the those circular wire guards..or torque arrestor..are they necessary if you tape the poop out of the wire every 5 ft?
    2) what is the maximum depth from static level that you would you use plastic pipe with.. given that I have an 800 ft run to my house from the top of the well and use this well to fill a cistern in an open drainage manner using a zone valve float switch system with the controller set as low as possible =30psi max for shut off..I am essentially trying to get a handle on how deep I should drill when I redrill to attempt to get a higher static level then currently exists ( only have 20 ft of water in this back up well) and essentially am pumping slimy water..thanks again, cheers roger
  7. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    What do you mean "crapping out" at 300', that you are running out of water?

    Why aren't you getting the right size pump and using that water under the pump's inlet (620-415= 205' at 1.47 gals/foot [6" well] = 301' minus say 20' to set the pump at 600'? Instead of drilling deeper?

    I wouldn't use PE pipe for the right sized pump and the weight for that static water depth. Sch 80 PVC is what I'd use.

    Sammy insists on an arrestor but he's young and hasn't suffered any problems with them yet I guess. I would not use one but, you certainly should use cable guards if you have a rock bore well which I think you do. And put the first one right above the pump where your cable connects to the motor pigtails but don't shorten the pigtails; bundle them and tape them very good. I always bundled a foot or two of the cable too. I used flat cable. Use one every 15-20' and tape between them.
  8. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Using cable guards every 15' to 20' is so over kill and i have been at this water well stuff for 17 years.

    Gary, maybe you should explain to this guy why a torque arrestor shouldn't be used instead of just telling him not to use it. A simple cable guard will not keep his pump motor from smacking the inside of his well every time his pump kicks on. It's too small in diameter. Cable guards or wire guides have their names for a reason. The last time i checked they weren't called pump or motor guards.

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    That may be true in your wells in granite but rock bores in many differing layers of rock and at different angles that I had to work with it isn't overkill. If he needs it I can email or PM him the info why no arrestor, OK?
  10. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2009
  11. Roger9698

    Roger9698 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Hi again and sorry to confuse the issues..I have one good functioning 5 gpm 615 deep well which has a static level to 300 ft from the surface and is working fine on Blue poly-the well has steel casing to bedrock and the whole 600+ ft is lined with white 4 inch pvc liner, and so far all is OK. Infortunately to drop a bigger pump(10 gal/min) down the hole to 600 ft as suggested means rewiring with #6 wire from house to well ( 150 ft) and putting #6 or #8 down 600 ft of hole. Total cost for this is much greater then resuscitating my second old well, which is 800 ft from my house and currently 300 ft deep, also a 6 inch hole, steel cased to bedrock, and fully lined with 4 inch pvc. I use my old well for irrigation around my house ..the water has dried up over the past 10 years such that I only have 25 ft of static in that well, hence my desire to pull the liner and redrill. My main issue was the amount of PSI presure that all the various sorts of poly/PVC could safley withstand as I understand that each 1 PSI will push water up 2.3 feet..therefore if I drill down another 150-250 ft and am pumping from a static level 460 ft down (460/2.3=200 psi?) and then pump 800 ft horizontally..will I overstress the 200 psi rated pipe..what allowances are made to allow a percentage overload of that pipe? any idea is it 200 psi +/- 20%?
    So far the main suggestion appears to be schedule 80 pvc, however I am looking for a continuous roll of pipe that will take a psi rating of somewhere close to 250psi?? to be safe and avoid putting galvanized back down..
    Can you also refer me to a site where I can see what wire guards/cable guides look like? The local folks around here in the East Kootenays of southern BC don't appear to use either item..possibly because all bore holes are PVC lined??thanks again for your time and efforts on my behalf, cheers roger
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