Toilet Flange and New Marble Tile...

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Sincraft, Feb 4, 2006.

  1. Sincraft

    Sincraft New Member

    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Greetings all, first time poster...long time lurker..
    Please excuse me if this has been posted before, I searched but somehow didn't hit my situation.

    My project:
    I am remodeling a powder room. Completely gutted everything, including the walls. Redrywalled everything, painted (one more coat to go on walls), but before I wainescot, I have to set my MARBLE tile because a baseboard has to go in first (slotted) that will hold the wainescot slats.
    I have a completely bare subfloor, that I preped and secured any and all questionable nails with 3 inch screws.

    My problem:
    1.My old closet flange sitting on the subfloor is rusty. Not completely, but bad enough that the bolts would rip right through if used again.
    Home depot plumber guys told me to use this metal disc/star thingy that has screw holes outside of the perimeter of the normal closet flange.
    Is this the way to do this? The old closet flange (the plastic part) is seemingly cemented to the actual waste pipe, I tried to pry...jimmy..turn , but it's all connected.

    2.Another problem I have is that I will have to be very careful with my HARDIBACKER to come as close to and around these points and up to the old flange so that I can tile as close to this as possible , otherwise my toilet will show lines from the tile.

    3 MY BIGGEST issue is, after the first layer of cement, then 1/2 hardibacker, then more cement, then my 3/8 tile, I will be probably an 1"+ off of the floor! The top of the flange is only 3/8"heavy tops.

    Suggestions PLEASE!

    Thanks!

    S
  2. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    O.K.
    #1 , I don't know what a questionable nail is but I would screw down the whole floor so there will be no squeeks. Many squeeks are from the wood drying out from around the nail and the the wood moves up and down on the nail creating the noise. Read on B4 doing that.

    #2 I would replace the old flange and pipe with a new PVC pipe and tile up to the pipe then install a new flange when your done with the floor.

    Here is what you don't want to hear.

    The sub floor needs to come up to the pipe also so the flange screws have something to screw into and hold the flange to the floor.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2006
  3. plumber1

    plumber1 Plumber

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Florida
    flange

    If your flange is rusty, it is cast iron.

    I would break the flange off with a hammer and wiggle the ring of lead off.

    Put a new deeper cast iron flange on the pipe and lead it on. Cast iron flanges come in different depths.

    You don't have to deal with changing the 4" pipe stub because a deep flange will allow you to make a good installation.

    Install the new flange on top of the finnished floor and when prepairing the new floor, leave room around the stub that will allow the flange to slide down.
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,128
    Location:
    New England
    Some pvc flanges have metal rings, and it sounds like that is what you have.

    A couple of things...do you know the deflection of your structure? A stone tile needs twice the deflection strength of a ceramic install (L/720 vs L/360). Also, the Tile Council of America (TCA) requires two layers of plywood, installed correctly (sheets offset, second layer installed with screws not into joists). Last, the cbu is NOT structural, so 1/4" is more than enough, you don't need 1/2" unless you want it to raise the floor height or if you are using it on a wall). To decrease that height gain, instead of cbu you can use a decoupling membrane such as Ditra, made by www.schluter.com

    The toilet flange is designed to sit on top of the finished floor and be attached to it through to the subflooring...often you can cheat and make things work if it isn't, but that doesn't make it right.

    Suggest you check out www.johnbridge.com for tile specific advice from tiling experts.
  5. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    With the added height , you should definitely address a new flange. If your piping is plastic, it is glued, but can be gotten off. Calling a plumber would be worth the money on this. As mentioned, the new flange should rest on top of the finished (marble) floor. Since neither marble or CBU offer sufficient strenght for anchors, the flange bolts need to go all the way down to the subfloor. If the subfloor is "iffy" as you described, this needs to be addressed.

    This all sounds like a lot, but actually it is an afternoon's work for you regarding the subfloor repairs and an hour or two for a plumber on the flange.

    With what you are investing in this bathroom, you do not want ANY "issues" that could crop up in a year or even 15 years!
  6. Sincraft

    Sincraft New Member

    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I typed this long reply, then saw this in a post somewhere else..

    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5267

    This is what I used. Seems actually much more secure than what they had originally. I also layed my first layer of backerboard and used the cement to kinda , fill in the cracks and solidify things around there.

    My only problem is, that I will still be 1/2" higher than the closet flange when finally done.

    Is a 35B ok for this, or how about 1 extended and a 35b?

    Regarding the responses about removing the flange. Not an option, two plumbers said big time money for that, as it was connected to an elbow directly that ran from the sink drain. They didnt know why I wanted to do that when all that was rusty was the area where the bolts are, so the reinforcing ring would do.


    S
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2006
  7. tlesher

    tlesher New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Remove the Toilet Flange with a Special Rotating Cutting Tool

    If you want to replace the flange without having to damage the floor around the existing drain pipe, check out the FlangeBuster tool at http://www.flangebuster.com. This tool was designed to remove virtually any modern 4 inch ABS toilet flange in under 60 seconds. It attaches to a power drill (not recommended for use with cordless drills).
Similar Threads: Toilet Flange
Forum Title Date
Toilet Forum discussions Broken bolts in toilet flange in concrete slab Aug 18, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions Searching for "Long Hub" Over fit 3" (or 4x3)Toilet Flange? Jul 5, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions Toilet Flange Issue May 3, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions Existing Toilet Flange Apr 29, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions Any tips on how to tighten a toilet to the flange without cracking the toilet base? Mar 2, 2014

Share This Page