Third party 3" flush valves

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by wptski, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Warren, MI
    I was looking into 3" flush valve other OEMs.

    There is a Fluid Master 540AKR but I wondered about the Korky line. I found nothing other than a 3" flapper so I emailed CS. They said that they have a 5030 carried by True Value Hardware and gave me a SKU number. No product or SKU at True Value Hardware's site and in fact there no 5030 at the the Korky site either.

    Could hardly find it by Googling which is actually a 5030BP.

    Why is it so hard to find? Are 3" flush valves so new to the industry that nobody stocks them yet?
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2012
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    What toilet is this for? Most of the Toto line uses a 3" flush valve (made for them by Korky), and other toilet manufacturers use them as well. It shouldn't be too hard to find a replacement, but to work right, it should be designed for the specific toilet.
  3. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    I don't know why it's not widely-distributed yet. There are a number of sites online that carry the 5030. There was another 3rd party 3" flush valve, but it seemed to have a 3" base and a 2" mouth, making it essentially-useless in my view. I guess that while people are currently needing to replace 3" flappers, they aren't to the point that they really need to replace the whole valve. Just a guess. I emailed Korky CS about why they don't even list the product on their web site. We'll see what they say.

    Good find.
  4. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    Jim, Korky makes a lot of "universal" 2" flush valves, and even the Toto probably could take such a valve if someone made one; after all, it's just filling a hole in the china. True that a dual-flush and now for example the 1G use some funky looking flush valves (not to mention the Champion), but the Toto generally uses a basic flush valve like any other, albeit a 3" one. Put in the right flapper, and voila! I have used the Korky universal 2" flush valve on a number of toilets and it works like a champ. I like the wider overflow riser and the fact that you just twist to lock and unlock the adjustable height of the overflow riser, with no cutting required.
  5. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Warren, MI
    Well, in another thread, I have a newly installed AS Cadet 3 with a tank leak from the flush valve. Suggestions have slowed the leak but it still leaks. Home Depot is sending another tank.

    I don't really know where this is going to lead to so I was just looking into other flush valves.

    I looked at a Fluid Master at HD and its seal isn't just flat but has two ribs on its sealing surface.
  6. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

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    137
    Location:
    Warren, MI
    I've read where one had it leak at the adjustment point on the overflow pipe.

    I think my old toilet was leaking at the adjustment point on the fill valve pipe.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  7. SamC

    SamC Member

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    130
    Location:
    Georgia
    Both Korky and Fluidmaster make adjustable replacement 3 inch flappers with instructions on where to set the adjustment for particular brands and models.

    fluidmaster_5403..jpg korkyflapper3060bp.jpg
  8. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Warren, MI
    I don't have flush problem, it works great in that respect. I have a flush valve seal at the tank leak.

    I think that my second tank is being shipped from Mexico! HD actually suggest removing and returning the whole toilet as that would be faster than just ordering a replacement tank. I told them that was out of the question.

    Luckily my leak is small and some rolled up paper toweling turned end for end once or so a day works. It appears to be slowing down even more unless I'm mistaken.
  9. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

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    Location:
    Warren, MI
    It appears that either/both of us contacting them caused them to update their site to include the 5030BP now.

    Interesting! Their 5030BP instructions state to measure the flush valve hole in then tank and if it's over a certain size, you add a "O" ring to fill the gap.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  10. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

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    Location:
    Warren, MI
    I just read a comment by someone who purchased a 540AKR. They stated that throat on the OEM AS Cadet 3 was 3.25" but the 540AKR was only 2.8"! I wonder what the throat size of the 5030BP is?
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2012
  11. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    I got a nice email from Korky about that valve. They are trying to get more sources to carry it; I guess it takes time. I looked at the instructions as well, and it reminded me how hard a manufacturer has to work to try to make a "universal" product. Turns out that some manufacturers make bigger holes in the china for their 3" flush valves than do others. I also note that the thing won't work on the Kohlers with the slightly-bigger-than-3" flush valve, which I guess was designed so you have to buy an OEM flapper, or at least forces Korky to make a flapper just for that product, which they do.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2012
  12. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Warren, MI
    It wasn't a URL to the site, I just mention that I could only find the 5030BP online at two places, one being a plumbing supply and the other well site that we all know.

    Funny that they believe that it's carried at True Value Hardware, having the SKU# and all but the truth is that it's not listed there.

    Any comment about the true throat sizes of so-called 3" flush valves.

    BTW: The replacement tank I thought I was waiting on from HD, isn't! After waiting a week, I double checked since they've messed up so much before. They have some kind-of 50% rule on a order. I'd have to return the whole toilet. They offered some kind-of 10% discount. I got sooooo mad I hung up on them. I cooled down a bit and called back, wanting to talk to a manager, etc. Got a different person and spent some time with them. The first person didn't explain what they meant about the 10% discount on a second toilet. I purchase a second toilet, swap the tank and return that order. The second person offered a 20% discount. I return the toilet using the original order number and pocket the extra 20%. Depending if I return it or have UPS pick it up determines how fast I get the money back. Still some very dumb rules if you ask me.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2012
  13. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Warren, MI
    What about so-called 3" flush valves where the throat is less than that when the stock one is over 3"?
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2012
  14. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Warren, MI
    No comments about apparent differences in so-called 3" flush valve. This is supposed to be a future standard in the industry, IIRC.

    I haven't looked inside my AS Cadet 3 tank for sometime but I just discovered that it's marked as a Fluidmaster 540 somewhat similiar to the 540AKR. One difference is the seal, the OEM is flat whereas the AKR has rib(s) on the sealing surface. I wonder if it has a undersized 3" throat also?

    What's used in the Toto? What's used as a Toto replacement if needed, Korky or Fluidmaster?
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Toto (at least in the USA) uses rebranded Korky stuff for the most part. You can buy the same thing at Lowes and many other sources, but it will say Korky for Toto rather than being labeled Toto.
  16. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Warren, MI
    The Lowels that I shop at carries Korky but nothing in 3". HD has the Fluidmaster 540AKR. Have to peek on the next flush but I doubt if the flapper is of the adjustable type, sure was nothing about that in the AS Cadet 3 install instructions.

    Googling the Korky 5030BP or 3" version finds next to nothing. Your making it sound like it can be purchased easily but that's not the case.
  17. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    Well...the 5030bp is available online from at least one source, but you are riight it isn't widely-distributed yet. That it doesn't appear on some Tru-Value web site doesn't mean, though, that it isn't in Tru-valu hardware stores.

    In any event, I notice that one of our contributors reported back in September that he used it on one of his toilets. I just didn't pay attention to the reference to 3" and to 5030BP at the time.
  18. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Warren, MI
    If True Value is like ACE and Lowes/HD also many products that are online aren't in the stores. I think that I have a long drive to find a True Value Hardware in my area.

    I checked my AS Cadet 3 Fluidmaster 540AKR-like flush valve and to my surprise, it does have the adjustable flapper. Now, does this mean that I could "try" to decrease my 1.6gpf downward towards 1.28gpf doing trial/error?

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