They tell me I need to dig a new well!

[Four Ringer]

For the past week, the well pump has been tripping the breaker. After only a few days of this, I monitored the behavior and here's what I gleaned.

-The pump won't build pressure past 35psi
-90' well. I believe the pump is a 3/4hp, could be a 1/2. 110V on a 15A circuit. It's exactly 4 years old
-Clamping shows a low draw when it starts. It stays at about 3-4A until it runs too long. Then it rises to close to 20A at which point the breaker pops. My meter is a small, cheapo HF one so it might not be very accurate
-40/60 pressure switch
-Bladder tank is low at about 30psi

I called the local well company that replaced my pump 4 years ago. They told me that the pump should be close to 12A under load, not low as it currently is. He then dropped something from a big pill bottle into the well and put his ear to the cap. I assume he was listening for the noise of it hitting the water.

They then pumped 150 gallons in and restarted the pump and it started operating as it normally did. They then proceeded to make my day by telling me that I most likely need a new well drilled based on the findings. $10-15k. Yikes.

Sorry for the long-winded first post. I'm normally handy enough to not need to seek outside help but this one sails well past my current knowledge/ability level. At this point, I'm just trying to keep them honest. Most likely I'll put in at least one 300G tank with a jet pump and a level switch. That seems like a far better option, at least in the short term.

Thanks for listening!

 

[LLigetfa]

Is the current pump a submersible? What is the static water level in the well? Is the 300 gallon tank and jet pump meant to be used as a reservoir/booster?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Four Ringer]

Is the current pump a submersible? What is the static water level in the well? Is the 300 gallon tank and jet pump meant to be used as a reservoir/booster?

Yes, the current pump is submersible. I don't know the static water level. I'm not sure how I would find that out.

The 300G tank and pump is a solution I'm likely going to implement for now. I'll connect the pressure tank to that pump and the tank, or tanks, will be my defacto well. My neighbor across the street has that setup now. It seems to provide a measure of consistency while also allowing you to see how much water you have. I would just call the well company for a couple hundred gallons of water when it gets too low.

 

[LLigetfa]

I don't know the static water level. I'm not sure how I would find that out.

The same way the guy you called out did, by dropping a pill (or ice cube) into the well and timing how long it takes to hear it hit the water. Some folks will shove down a 1/4" poly tube of known length and attach a pressure gauge and Schrader valve to pump air into the tube. The subsequent max pressure it will hold can be used to calculate how many feet of water is above the bottom of the tube. Water exerts 0.43 PSI per foot.

 

[Four Ringer]

The same way the guy you called out did, by dropping a pill (or ice cube) into the well and timing how long it takes to hear it hit the water. Some folks will shove down a 1/4" poly tube of known length and attach a pressure gauge and Schrader valve to pump air into the tube. The subsequent max pressure it will hold can be used to calculate how many feet of water is above the bottom of the tube. Water exerts 0.43 PSI per foot.

I'll do that tomorrow. Does it matter that they added water to the well?

 

[LLigetfa]

150 gallons would likely disappear into the aquifer fairly quickly.

 

[Four Ringer]

150 gallons would likely disappear into the aquifer fairly quickly.

Well, here's to hoping that I continue to have water for a while. I'll do that test and report back tomorrow. Thanks

 

[Valveman]

It has got to be 1/2HP if it is 115V. It should start pumping at about 12 amps if there is any water in the well. As soon as you pump the well down, maybe a few seconds or a few minute, the amps will drop to 3-4 amps as you have seen. If you let it run at 3-4 amps for very long the plastic impellers will melt together and make the amps go up tp 20+ and trip the over load in the motor. If after sitting idle for an hour or so your pump will pull 12 amps, run, and pump water for a minute or so, you have enough water to make the storage tank and booster pump idea work. However, if it starts at 3-4 amps and doesn't pump any water, the well doesn't make enough for even a storage tank to help.

 

[Four Ringer]

It has got to be 1/2HP if it is 115V. It should start pumping at about 12 amps if there is any water in the well. As soon as you pump the well down, maybe a few seconds or a few minute, the amps will drop to 3-4 amps as you have seen. If you let it run at 3-4 amps for very long the plastic impellers will melt together and make the amps go up tp 20+ and trip the over load in the motor. If after sitting idle for an hour or so your pump will pull 12 amps, run, and pump water for a minute or so, you have enough water to make the storage tank and booster pump idea work. However, if it starts at 3-4 amps and doesn't pump any water, the well doesn't make enough for even a storage tank to help.

View attachment 90807

I'll confirm the HP tomorrow as the owner of the well company is coming over. Apparently that's their protocol.

The behavior you describe is exactly what happened. The pump did just that and popped the breaker maybe 4 or 5 times over the course of 5 days. The breaker was off for about 12 hours by the time they got there to test and the well allegedly still hadn't recovered.

Fortunately, I don't need only the well to recover to make the tank/jet pump setup work. I start off by adding water to both the tank(s) and the well. When I notice the level in the tanks getting too low, I call for more water. My neighbor has the same setup currently. She always had that setup from the prior owner but it wasn't connected anymore. She then had a new well dug last year which wound up costing $17k, which is outrageous btw, and when that well also didn't produce much water, they reconnected the tanks and jet pump. Even with that, she still does laundry at a laundromat.

 

[Valveman]

Even a weak 1 GPM well will make 1440 gallons a day, which can supply up to 3 houses. You just need a storage tank to collect it in. Adding a Cycle Sensor to the well pump will let it stay off for up to 5 hours. Then the Cycle Sensor will start the pump again, and let it run until the amps drop from 12 to 4, then it shuts the pump off and starts the 5 hours timers again.

 

[Valveman]

Oh and BTW, it doesn't do any good to pour water down a well as it will just leak out into the fissures or aguafer.

 

[Four Ringer]

Even a weak 1 GPM well will make 1440 gallons a day, which can supply up to 3 houses. You just need a storage tank to collect it in. Adding a Cycle Sensor to the well pump will let it stay off for up to 5 hours. Then the Cycle Sensor will start the pump again, and let it run until the amps drop from 12 to 4, then it shuts the pump off and starts the 5 hours timers again.

Thanks. That's exactly the info I need to implement this setup. No way I'm paying these guys the insane amount of money their asking to do all of this. I used my neighbor as a cautionary tale!

 

[Four Ringer]

Oh and BTW, it doesn't do any good to pour water down a well as it will just leak out into the fissures or aguafer.

That's what I thought, and yet, right after they did that, I had normal well operation. That was friday morning and I still do as of now. We've been cutting water usage down by at least going to the laundromat but we use it normally for everything else. This was exactly why I posted. It seemed fishy. I'm just trying to determine if I do indeed have a failing well.

 

[Valveman]

The problem is a well that won't take water also won't make water. If that is the case you may just have a corrosion problem and the well needs to be cleaned out.

 

[LLigetfa]

With the well being only 90 feet deep, it will not be too difficult to pull the pump even if it is hung on steel pipe, and pull the pump you must as it needs replacing and the source of the leak has to be found. While the pump is out, consider taping that length of 1/4" poly as I mentioned so that you can monitor the water level.

You might also consider replacing that leaky pressure tank with a captive air tank and remove the bleeder/snifter/check valve apparatus.

Consider installing a PSIdekick and a cycle sensor pump monitor.

 

[Four Ringer]

The problem is a well that won't take water also won't make water. If that is the case you may just have a corrosion problem and the well needs to be cleaned out.

How do I know whether it takes water, or not? I mean, it took the 150G that they put into it Friday.

 

[Four Ringer]

With the well being only 90 feet deep, it will not be too difficult to pull the pump even if it is hung on steel pipe, and pull the pump you must as it needs replacing and the source of the leak has to be found. While the pump is out, consider taping that length of 1/4" poly as I mentioned so that you can monitor the water level.

You might also consider replacing that leaky pressure tank with a captive air tank and remove the bleeder/snifter/check valve apparatus.

Consider installing a PSIdekick and a cycle sensor pump monitor.

Agreed. I like this idea much more than digging a new well. After I build the tank setup, I'll figure out what I'll need to get to pull the pump safely. I'll definitely do that poly, as well. What leak do you believe I have?

What is leaky about my pressure tank? do you mean because the bladder didn't hold to 38psi? I'll look into a captive air tank, as I'm not familiar with them. I also don't know what the bleeder/snifter check valve is either. I don't even know if I have those items.

I'm very familiar with all of my water equipment. I installed the bladder tank, new tee, switch, et al, a few years back. I also installed my own softener and acid neutralizer and switched most of the copper to Pex.

 

[Valveman]

How do I know whether it takes water, or not? I mean, it took the 150G that they put into it Friday.

That 150 gallons should have just leaked out into the aquifer. If it didn't your well is clogged up and not letting water flow in or out.

 

[LLigetfa]

If the well screen was clogged, dumping 150 gallons of water down the well may have flushed the screen enough for it to make a little more water. I had my well driller dump 1000 gallons down my well to clean it out. I've since had to clean it out again by "developing" the well to remove fine clay.

You might have to bail or air lift to clean the well.

The best way to really know what is happening down the hole is to monitor the water level. Putting down a camera might offer more clues.

 

[LLigetfa]

What is leaky about my pressure tank?

Sorry, I mixed this up with another thread that has a HP tank. If a pump cannot build enough pressure, then either the water level is too low, the pump is worn, or there is a hole in the pipe.