Tankless-luke warm shower

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Scuba_Dave

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The county above me now requires the tank heaters to be set at 140 and have a tempering valve installed just like you said...they have been doing this for 2 years now...

A tank heater at 140 !! ?? :eek:

I just reset mine to about 115 & put it on energy saver mode
Took a nice long hot shower, still plenty of water
 

SewerRatz

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A tank heater at 140 !! ?? :eek:

I just reset mine to about 115 & put it on energy saver mode
Took a nice long hot shower, still plenty of water

140 to kill any ickies that may want to grow in your water heater. 115 is way to low of a setting you are tempting fate with that low of a setting. Key is at 140 you need to have a whole house tempering valve installed at the heater to bring the temp back down to a safe 120 degrees.
 

Scuba_Dave

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Ah, no tempering valve, & we have a child
So until that gets installed I can't turn it up
I wish I knew about that, not sure why one wasn't installed when the WH was replaced. Is this a recent change in code - past 3-4 years?
I'll need to test the actual Temp, its just below the 120 mark - I wish they had better dials
 
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SewerRatz

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Ah, no tempering valve, & we have a child
So until that gets installed I can't turn it up
I wish I knew about that, not sure why one wasn't installed when the WH was replaced. Is this a recent change in code - past 3-4 years?
I'll need to test the actual Temp, its just below the 120 mark - I wish they had better dials

Some areas are changing the code to this, as I mentioned here in Illinois they are talking about it amending the code this year.
 

Ladiesman271

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Ah, no tempering valve, & we have a child
So until that gets installed I can't turn it up
I wish I knew about that, not sure why one wasn't installed when the WH was replaced. Is this a recent change in code - past 3-4 years?


It is not required by the Massachusetts Plumbing Code. It also is not prohibited by the Massachusetts Plumbing Code. I am surprised that the "boys" who post here don't require tempering valves on all of their water heater replacements when they have indicated in the past that they are so concerned about the health of the public.

The reason I posted those "GOOGLE BOY" links is due to the fact that there are groups of people who tell you to turn down the water heater tank temperature, and other groups that tell you to turn up the water heater tank temperature. Sort of like the Three Stooges (not the ones who post here) saying to point that way!




I'll need to test the actual Temp, its just below the 120 mark - I wish they had better dials


The thermostats on hot water tanks have an ON / OFF cycle range of 15 or 20 degrees (depending on model/brand/setup), so there is no exact water temperature even when you measure with a thermometer.
 

Ladiesman271

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and your interpretation is?


I was trying to talk about the temperature of the "hot" water during the test, not the volume and pressure. What hot water temperature is required by code taking into consideration the volume and pressure during your test, and for what time period must that temperature be maintained?

My old water heater tank would start to cool down after 15 or 20 minutes of use (shower) during the winter season (40 degree incoming water temperature). My tankless will maintain temperature during a shower that could last forever.

No water storage in a tankless means no water is stored at the optimum temperature needed to create a breeding ground for bacteria either!
 

Cass

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Ladiesman271...I am just wondering why you are so interested in the Mass plumbing code since home owners aren't allowed to do their own plumbing by Law in your State...it seems to me you would just call a plumber in and let him worry about interpreting the code...
 

Jadnashua

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Nashua, NH has required a tempering valve on WH for at least 3-years, maybe longer.
 

NHmaster

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Well folks that's it! Let's all get rid of our tank type water heaters because Ladiesman seems to be the definitave expert on the whole subject of heating water. That EVERY SINGLE piece of information he posts is either and exageration misleading or just plain wrong has nothing to do with it. His knowledge of water heating technology is far superior to anything we possess. He has a way of interpreting the Mass code that is far beyone any or our reasoning. I should just hand in my Mass license now because I obviously have no idea how to size water piping or fixture demand, at least by his method. Of course I suppose I could get someone from the board to give him a little lesson but he would probably tell that poor guy he didn't know his job either.

PLEASE GOD CLOSE THIS STUPID THREAD. My helmet is starting to frey athe the edges
 

Sjsmithjr

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No water storage in a tankless means no water is stored at the optimum temperature needed to create a breeding ground for bacteria either!

If you are suggesting that the absence of a tank type water heater or tankless with recirculating system would somehow preclude the presence of bacteria (in particular the pathogen legionellosis) in a water distribution system, then you are sadly mistaken.

Could you please clarify, in your own words, your position regarding the possibility of legionellosis being present in a water distribution system that relies on a tankless water heater?
 
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Redwood

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Ladiesman271...I am just wondering why you are so interested in the Mass plumbing code since home owners aren't allowed to do their own plumbing by Law in your State...it seems to me you would just call a plumber in and let him worry about interpreting the code...

I had the same thoughts when I posted the yet unanswered question in this post...
Unanswered question for Laddy Man

I guess the hard to answer questions get ignored while the drivel spews on...

Laddy man Answer the questions or shut the trap!:mad:
I have 3 posts waiting replies...
Have you got answers or, just the garbage?
 

Ladiesman271

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Well, it's on the Delta website:

"Often the outgoing water pressure from a "tankless" water heater is relatively low. As a result, these devices are not generally recommended for use with pressure balanced units due to the possible differences in water pressure from the hot and cold lines. For example, if you were to have 20 PSI on the hot supply line and 50 PSI on the cold, since pressure balancing adjusts to the low pressure, your resulting operating pressure in the shower will be reduced."

Maybe Greg should give Delta a call and let them know that their wrong too. The Boy Scout's all trades certified and got it all figured out, you know. :rolleyes:



Back to the original topic.

I measured the water pressure of the hot water while my shower was on full force hot with no cold mixed in. Standard present day MA code required 2.2? gpm shower head. I measured 45 PSI at the washing machine shutoff (pipe length 45 foot of the same 65 foot run to shower). Present water input temperature 42 degrees. Output water temperature is 125 degrees nominal.

That being said, my type of tankless unit does not adjust the water volume or pressure to maintain its heating capacity.

So can one presume that with the use of a pressure balanced shower valve that the pressure of the cold would be limited to 45 psi and nothing else would happen?


I also read the FPN on the pressure balanced shower valve web sites. The substance of the FPN note is that a pressure balanced shower valve requires a seasonal adjustment of the high temperature limiter in order to maintain the anti scald temperature year round. How many consumers know about that, let alone how many of them make a seasonal adjustment?

.
 
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Redwoodvotesoften1

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Hot Dang!
This is just like when Southern Man screwed the pooch!

Man that Redwood He don't pull no punches.:eek:
It looks just like when Tyson was at his best!
 

Ladiesman271

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Not so fast. Ask and answer, my friend. Much time has passed since that post. Respond to each question asked of you since and I will consider your most recent.



A tankless water heater will pass through whatever is in the cold water feed to the tank. THe heater water is no worse nor better than the incoming cold water. As has been widely discussed here and elsewhere, a storage tank heater is a potential breeding ground for bacteria if an improper temperature setting is used.


If that answer does not suit you, research "your" issue on what problems exist in public & private water supplies with the EPA or the appropriate local government or medical research group. After you have done your research, write a complete detailed report and get back to us at your convenience.

can-of-worms.jpg
 

Sjsmithjr

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A tankless water heater will pass through whatever is in the cold water feed to the tank. The heater water is no worse nor better than the incoming cold water. As has been widely discussed here and elsewhere, a storage tank heater is a potential breeding ground for bacteria if an improper temperature setting is used.

Again, I will ask you if you could please clarify, in your own words, your position regarding the possibility of legionellosis being present in a water distribution system that relies on a tankless water heater?

It is not "my" issue although I do believe you brought it up a couple of days ago. You can also rest assured that my knowledge base re the topic isn't sponsered by Google.

I believe several other posters have questions awaiting answers as well.
 

Redwood

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Laddy Boy,
Answer the questions and replies in posts #127-129 of this thread.
If you have an answer at all.:cool:
The correct answers have been given and it is no can of worms.
 

Ladiesman271

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Again, I will ask you if you could please clarify, in your own words, your position regarding the possibility of legionellosis being present in a water distribution system that relies on a tankless water heater?


I have already answered that question. Since you are a "special case", legionellosis is commonly found in the cold water supply that is piped into your home from whatever water source is used.




It is not "my" issue although I do believe you brought it up a couple of days ago. You can also rest assured that my knowledge base re the topic isn't sponsered by Google.


You are the one who has expanded the scope of this discussion to include water sources, water distribution systems, and what deficiencies exist in the incoming water supply. The expanded scope of this issue is 100 % "your issue"!



I believe several other posters have questions awaiting answers as well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0jyKabLHVc
 
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