Takagi TK1\Aquastar 240FX - No hot water.....

Discussion in 'Tankless Water Heater Forum' started by SolomonMan, Apr 2, 2014.

  1. SolomonMan

    SolomonMan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Northwest Ohio
    All,
    I have a Takagi TK1 that has been installed in my family home since I believe just before 2000. My late dad installed the unit and for the most part the unit has been fairly reliable. On occassion I would have to cycle its power. On occassion meaning maybe once every year or so max.

    Anyways, last night while the wife was getting a shower the tank cutout and no hot water was available. I turned off power to the unit and turn it back on from the external power switch that was installed during its installation almost 14 yrs back.

    Still no hot water. So after a series of steps (power cycling, flushing the system at the tank, turning on multiple hot water outlets) that usually corrected the hot water issues in the past we still have no hot water.

    So I have electronic experience, am a engineer, and grew up in the trades....so I pulled out my multimeter and began to probe and compare on what information I could find on the unit.

    The unit when a hot water outlet is turned on will engage the fan blower always. There are no errror codes(probably due to power cycling but no errors are reported though during testing/now). The GFI is not lit up (meaning its working). The red light on main board is on as it is during normal operation. No ignition nor gas solenoid noises at all.

    I have done the following;
    1) Tested voltage at the igniter (0 volts). Also the connector at board still 0.
    2) There is continuity at the hi-limit switch.
    3) Opened up burner containment area and check igniter contacts clean very little signs of burnt/corrision (surprised)
    4) Inside the burner area confirmed flame sensor is clean.
    5) Test GFI to confirm proper operation (No light = on/light on is Off)
    6) Did a visual inspection on main board and it looks clean no raised caps nor unusual burn areas.
    7) Removed calcificiation clean out tap to see if build up or filter clogged - very very little considering ~14 yrs of use.
    8) Natural Gas in house currently runs 120000 BTU furnace plus other gas items in home (all of which have been there well over 20 yrs) so would be very surprised if gas supply was issue.
    9) Water pressure is strong but is cold. (before tank, after tank, and at outlets) (In city supply)


    I am kind outta of ideas....I need to know the normal firing process of the heater and or more troubleshooting steps.....Something must be preventing ignition...

    But I am assuming here the igniter will be first step followed by gas solenoid opening and ignition occurs followed by flame sensor telling the computer to cutout igniter. I am also assuming that the flow process is fine as the fan is always coming on when a hot water outlet is opened and the other items in the parts list seems after the point of ignition. (This is going from no manual other than installation/troubleshooting manual that came with unit = limited knowledge)

    If anyone can lend some troubleshooting steps or other things to check please let me know....If anyone has a suggestion on a new water heater I would be interested in seeing what a newer model may provide as well.

    Thanks
    Chris
  2. Dana

    Dana In the trades

    Messages:
    2,837
    Location:
    01609
    Takagi tech support is fairly homeowner-friendly, and willing to talk you through the diagnostics: 888.882.5244
  3. SolomonMan

    SolomonMan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Northwest Ohio
    I will give them a call tonight....Hopefully we can get this resolved....Biggest question is will I have to order the parts or hopefully get them from a local supplier.

    Thanks
    Chris
  4. Dana

    Dana In the trades

    Messages:
    2,837
    Location:
    01609
    The are all custom parts and I'm not sure if they have regional distribution near you, but you can get 1- day shipping from their CA location.
  5. SolomonMan

    SolomonMan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Northwest Ohio
    Success

    Dana,
    Was speaking with the guy and we went thru about everything I had checked but the Over heat cut off fuse wire....because I was unable to find the connection point but that turned out fine.

    So we both thought possibly the flow sensor but we questioned how the fan was turning on....So I told them I would tear it down and call them back and let them know.....Low and behold it was full of junk....so I completely cleaned it out and reassembled....Then tried the unit and we are good.....So calling them back told them ...got a different guy and I asked if I should flush the unit as to my knowledge it has never been flushed....I know the last 10 years for sure it has not....that tech support guy actually told me not to do it to avoid possibly other issues....So I am going to get a filter as I discovered mine is no longer on the unit.

    In all a good experience and I would suggest giving them a call to anyone.

    Thanks,
    Chris
  6. ColdInSD

    ColdInSD New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    CA
    Hi All,

    I stumbled on this thread through Google, and would really appreciate any help you can provide. I too own a Aquastar 240FX. I don't know how old it is, but we've lived here 5 years and not had it serviced.

    About two weeks ago, I suddenly lost hot water during a shower. Went out to the unit and couldn't see anything obviously wrong. I downloaded the manual and tried the troubleshooting steps. It said to push the lower green button on the GFCI, which I did, and the red light immediately above it illuminated. Then I pressed the upper green button as the manual stated, and the system returned to working order.

    Now, it has stopped working again. Nothing happens when I open a hot water tap - no ignition, and the upper/on red light does not illuminate. Looking in the manual, it says if both lights are off, it may be a problem with the electric supply, and lists possible parts as computer, gfi, fuse, wire connection or outer electric resource. The fuse looks fine. Now, when I do the buttons on the GFCI again, the small red light on it does illuminate when I press the lower green button. When I press the upper green button, the GFCI red light turns off, but the standby lamp at the 45 degree angle does not illuminate. I'm going to call Takagi on Monday -- thank you for the advice -- but I thought I would ask here if anyone has any ideas.

    Thank you all for your help!
  7. SolomonMan

    SolomonMan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Northwest Ohio
    Good Hunting!

    Well sound like you have something tripping the GFI.....Not sure where this heater is located (inside house, outside, or basement) but make sure that no water could possibly drip down from condensation of pipes on to the board etc.

    Also I will tell you if the unit has been ever serviced... I accidently tripped my GFI by unplugging (should had power off - double dumb) items ...specifically the overheat fuse that is the cable that wraps around the internal burner area. It is usually very tight wire wise, I was told, and the connection point is at the bottom of the section of the unit (under burner - check continuity with voltmeter to confirm its good) Also if there is no light on the board but the GFI light is off I would guess maybe the transformer on top of the board is a possible issue....but I did not get into this at all but would make sense looking at the wiring diagram in the Takagi manual (page 6-7).

    Testing it with a voltmeter (if possible) would be a consideration....the board is not cheap...but finding someone with electronic experience/repair may be cheaper than replacing with a new board...There are web pages out there showing people unfortunate issues with the boards which include; bad capacitors (look for raised tops) to burned out sections (very visible).

    I hope this helps but I will tell you Takagi was friendly and helpful considering the unit is almost 15 years old.

    Thanks
    Chris
  8. ColdInSD

    ColdInSD New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    CA
    Thanks so much for the help Chris. The heater is outside, and hasn't been serviced in the five years we've lived here. We're in San Diego, so the weather is very mild and we haven't gotten much rain at all this winter. I don't believe any moisture has gotten to the board.

    I removed the board this morning and looked it over for blown capacitors, scorch marks, etc. I don't see anything. The two fuses on there look good too. So, I called Takagi and told them my experience. They said it's likely to be the computer, and a new board will cost $400. I would go ahead and order it, but my fear is that if this isn't the problem, I'll be out the money since it's not returnable.

    You mentioned that there are web pages out there showing people having issues with the boards? I wasn't able to find anything searching online about this issue. If you have the links handy, could share them?

    I guess my next step will be to test the board with my multimeter. I don't have much experience with this sort of thing (mostly only with computers), and I'm not sure who I could call to try to test the board. If it really is the computer that's shot, then I guess I'll have to replace the board anyway. I'll play with it some and see if I can narrow the problem down any further.

    Thanks again for the help,

    Alex
  9. SolomonMan

    SolomonMan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Northwest Ohio
    Links....And Such...Good Hunting....

    Alex,
    Was out your way about 2-3 years ago when I went cross country with the kids.....anyways there are a few youtube videos that show board issues....One that I have in my history still is
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lydbhFXs_BY

    I remember the board replacement being high cost....which I see as an incentive to replace the unit....Can buy a new tank less here in Ohio (couple brands - Rheem,Jacuzzi) for 600-800 range. When my dad bought ours ~14 years back it was $1200.

    I swore, recently, I came across the board online for $250 but I felt that was way high even.

    Best I can suggest is look at the board and use the sense of smell to see if anything on the board smells burnt. Take a Look at the capacitors see if any are raised. Also look at all the board connections make sure there is no corrosion etc.

    If you find capacitors are bad find a local TV repair guy (can be hard) and have him look at the capacitor you think is bad.... it more than likely can be tested or replaced in many situations. If the connections look corroded try a pencil eraser or your finger nail to clean up. Maybe even consider some dielectric grease at the connections. If you can test the voltage out of the transformer I would look at that as well.

    If you have any issues identifying or testing any of these components- Google\Youtube will be your friend as there is a huge amount of info on this kind of stuff online.

    Good Luck and Good Hunting,
    Chris
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