SQE - CU 301 vs CSV - need some quick input

[corpfan1]

Hi everyone,

I have been doing a lot of reading here on and off and need some input to help me.

Last year my CU 301 kept going into maintenance mode (little red light with Turtle on) and the water shut off. I would flip the breaker or power switch on my wall and all started working again. This happened about a dozen times every 5-14 days or so. Then for almost a year, all worked fine with no issues. Then a couple days ago, water went off and flipping the switch/breaker didn't do anything at all...the CU 301 was simply not coming back on.

Yesterday, called my local well / plumbing specialist (who installed a new water pressure tank (2 Gallon V6P) about a year and a half ago because it was old and waterlogged) and after testing, he said the Grundfos SQE water well pump was shot. He returned today with the replacement part 15SQE 10-220 and installed it and and nothing... so he said the Grundfos CU 301 was also shot as it was just clicking and nothing was happening (although there was power to it - green lights inside were on). He installed a 40-80 (or at least that was what he set it at...he said they could be set at pretty much anything) pressure switch. But he said this is a temporary solution until we get a new controller. He said try not to use the water too much until then and he would call me tomorrow with the price of a new controller (today is a holiday here in Canada).

I had mentioned to him about the CSV or Cycle Stop Valves and he heard of them he said but never installed them before and said it is up to me what I want done....but he warned me about the controller working hand in hand with the new SQE pump and how it has protection mechanisms for various things such as:

Dry running of the pump
Service alarm
Defective sensor
Overload
Over-temperature
Speed Reduction
Voltage alarm
No contact to pump

Etc... all the stuff you read on the Grundfos advertising and manual, etc...

So, now I need to figure out what to do. I am not concerned that much about money (spending $300 CDN vs. $950 CDN for the CSV vs Controller)... I just want to do what is best for the system, life of parts, use in the home, etc...

Any feedback is appreciated.

We have owned the home for 4 years, but the controller and well pump were both about 10-15 years old (I assume installed when the house was built in 2006 or so). I can't tell if anything has been replaced since as there have been 2 owners in between myself and original builder.

Bottom line is the service guy is calling or emailing me tomorrow morning with a price for the Grundfos CU 301 and can probably install it tomorrow...or I can try and get it cheaper and have him install it next week when I get it OR I can go the CSV or whatever route makes sense. Only problem with the CSV, I am looking at 2-4 weeks before I can get one it seems (Walmart and Amazon both carry them here and say delivery would be late July or August).

Thanks!
corfpan1

 

[Ballvalve]

Hi everyone,

I have been doing a lot of reading here on and off and need some input to help me.

Last year my CU 301 kept going into maintenance mode (little red light with Turtle on) and the water shut off. I would flip the breaker or power switch on my wall and all started working again. This happened about a dozen times every 5-14 days or so. Then for almost a year, all worked fine with no issues. Then a couple days ago, water went off and flipping the switch/breaker didn't do anything at all...the CU 301 was simply not coming back on.

Yesterday, called my local well / plumbing specialist (who installed a new water pressure tank (2 Gallon V6P) about a year and a half ago because it was old and waterlogged) and after testing, he said the Grundfos SQE water well pump was shot. He returned today with the replacement part 15SQE 10-220 and installed it and and nothing... so he said the Grundfos CU 301 was also shot as it was just clicking and nothing was happening (although there was power to it - green lights inside were on). He installed a 40-80 (or at least that was what he set it at...he said they could be set at pretty much anything) pressure switch. But he said this is a temporary solution until we get a new controller. He said try not to use the water too much until then and he would call me tomorrow with the price of a new controller (today is a holiday here in Canada).

I had mentioned to him about the CSV or Cycle Stop Valves and he heard of them he said but never installed them before and said it is up to me what I want done....but he warned me about the controller working hand in hand with the new SQE pump and how it has protection mechanisms for various things such as:

Dry running of the pump
Service alarm
Defective sensor
Overload
Over-temperature
Speed Reduction
Voltage alarm
No contact to pump

Etc... all the stuff you read on the Grundfos advertising and manual, etc...

So, now I need to figure out what to do. I am not concerned that much about money (spending $300 CDN vs. $950 CDN for the CSV vs Controller)... I just want to do what is best for the system, life of parts, use in the home, etc...

Any feedback is appreciated.

We have owned the home for 4 years, but the controller and well pump were both about 10-15 years old (I assume installed when the house was built in 2006 or so). I can't tell if anything has been replaced since as there have been 2 owners in between myself and original builder.

Bottom line is the service guy is calling or emailing me tomorrow morning with a price for the Grundfos CU 301 and can probably install it tomorrow...or I can try and get it cheaper and have him install it next week when I get it OR I can go the CSV or whatever route makes sense. Only problem with the CSV, I am looking at 2-4 weeks before I can get one it seems (Walmart and Amazon both carry them here and say delivery would be late July or August).

Thanks!
corfpan1

Hi everyone,

I have been doing a lot of reading here on and off and need some input to help me.

Last year my CU 301 kept going into maintenance mode (little red light with Turtle on) and the water shut off. I would flip the breaker or power switch on my wall and all started working again. This happened about a dozen times every 5-14 days or so. Then for almost a year, all worked fine with no issues. Then a couple days ago, water went off and flipping the switch/breaker didn't do anything at all...the CU 301 was simply not coming back on.

Yesterday, called my local well / plumbing specialist (who installed a new water pressure tank (2 Gallon V6P) about a year and a half ago because it was old and waterlogged) and after testing, he said the Grundfos SQE water well pump was shot. He returned today with the replacement part 15SQE 10-220 and installed it and and nothing... so he said the Grundfos CU 301 was also shot as it was just clicking and nothing was happening (although there was power to it - green lights inside were on). He installed a 40-80 (or at least that was what he set it at...he said they could be set at pretty much anything) pressure switch. But he said this is a temporary solution until we get a new controller. He said try not to use the water too much until then and he would call me tomorrow with the price of a new controller (today is a holiday here in Canada).

I had mentioned to him about the CSV or Cycle Stop Valves and he heard of them he said but never installed them before and said it is up to me what I want done....but he warned me about the controller working hand in hand with the new SQE pump and how it has protection mechanisms for various things such as:

Dry running of the pump
Service alarm
Defective sensor
Overload
Over-temperature
Speed Reduction
Voltage alarm
No contact to pump

Etc... all the stuff you read on the Grundfos advertising and manual, etc...

So, now I need to figure out what to do. I am not concerned that much about money (spending $300 CDN vs. $950 CDN for the CSV vs Controller)... I just want to do what is best for the system, life of parts, use in the home, etc...

Any feedback is appreciated.

We have owned the home for 4 years, but the controller and well pump were both about 10-15 years old (I assume installed when the house was built in 2006 or so). I can't tell if anything has been replaced since as there have been 2 owners in between myself and original builder.

Bottom line is the service guy is calling or emailing me tomorrow morning with a price for the Grundfos CU 301 and can probably install it tomorrow...or I can try and get it cheaper and have him install it next week when I get it OR I can go the CSV or whatever route makes sense. Only problem with the CSV, I am looking at 2-4 weeks before I can get one it seems (Walmart and Amazon both carry them here and say delivery would be late July or August).

Thanks!
corfpan1

I think the consensus will tell you that the controller for these pumps are not very reliable, to be kind. If he has it working now on a 40-80 pressure switch, that is fine. It is fixed and forget the other crap you hear. It is mostly marketing for a well thought out set of problems that can be easily remedied by old tech - applied correctly. You may have noticed that it has been trouble some from the start. Maybe a ball pein hammer kept close to the control box is also a good repair method. If the pump moves water, control it with a $15 square D pressure switch. Or go big time with a low pressure cut out attached for $26. I suppose you may need a small pressure tank if not in the system now. For a CSV, others may comment.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[corpfan1]

So right now, the pressure switch is just basically bouncing from 40psi to 80psi as the water runs and the pump is shutting on and off every time the 2G pressure tank fills and empties. I read that this is very bad for the pump (the pump turning off and on constantly when the water is running)...besides the fact that it is driving me crazy when using the shower or other things like washing dishes, etc... as the water pressure goes strong and then weak every 10-20 seconds. Before it "mostly" stayed medium strength with the controller on.

So will see tomorrow what happens when he gives me a quote on the CU 301. I talked to a friend I know who works for a nuclear plant in the control systems department and he says that despite the failure rate of controllers, they are:

a) Do a fabulous job of controlling the system and making sure the water pressure is constant as well as other safety checks, protections, etc...

b) Much better in terms of lifespan than they were even 10 years ago. Which I guess is why so many failure complaints and issues seemed to come up between 2004 and 2014.

So, right now I am leaning to install the CU 301 controller (version 7 came out in 2012 and things seem to have calmed down since then, with the biggest issue being power surges/lightning strikes that cause issues and failures). However, depending on the price I am quoted I may shop around and wait to get it installed next week or whenever I can get the part a bit cheaper. Another friend works for a plumbing wholesaler and he can get it at cost +5%...I just may have to wait a few days and arrange to get it from him or pick it up somewhere.

Regardless, I checked the dates on the previous controller and it was 2005...so this last controller happened to last 15 years in this house...so maybe I will have the same luck with the next one, especially if reliability has improved.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
corpfan1

 

[Valveman]

It is almost unheard of for one of those CU301 boxes to last 15 years. There was probably nothing wrong with the original pump. Did he hook it up to power directly like the new one? I would want the old pump back to check for myself. "Generation 7" should be all you need to hear about the problems with those SQE and CU301 type systems, and they are still not right. And really the last "generation" (changes) just increased the number of cycles the pump will do from 500 to 1000 cycles on and off before the lights even come on to tell you the CU301 has lost contact with the motor. So, it has been doing this for a long time, and you probably just didn't know it was happening.

Sorry for the long delivery time and high cost to get a $190 valve sent to Canada. It is our government officials fault for allowing such a large trade imbalance between our two countries. We allow Canada to sell freely in the US, but Canada puts fees and restrictions on anything coming from the US.

You can get a CSV1A from Amazon, but I don't think Walmart has them. And since it has been cycling for a long time, a couple more days or weeks is not going to hurt anything. Without the CU301, you either need a larger pressure tank or a CSV. You don't need a 40/80 switch setting, as a 60/80 will do. But with the big tank you will be seeing the pressure change from 80 to 60 over and over as you use water. With a CSV and a small tank, the pressure will stay at a strong constant 70 PSI, just like the CU301 box is supposed to be doing.

Grundfos and all the other pump companies sell those Variable Speed Drives like the CU301 and do not sell Cycle Stop Valves for a reason. The reason is they consider the CSV a disruptive product, as it makes pumps last longer and use smaller pressure tanks. They promote those VFD type pumps because they fall in line with their planned obsolescence. Like I said 15 years is unheard of, as those are made to be expensive, not last very long, not be re-pairable, so you have to replace them regularly. The old pressure tank systems are known to last 20-30 years, and adding a CSV to the old reliable pressure tank type system will make them last even longer.

Yeah they have the sales pitch sounding pretty good for those things, as that is how they make the big bucks. Which BTW, those bucks are coming from people like you. None of those protection features are needed except for overload and dry run, unless you have the CU301 box to cause a
Service alarm
Defective sensor
Over-temperature
Speed Reduction
Voltage alarm
No contact to pump

The overload and dry well protection are still there, as they are in the electronics in the bottom of the SQ motor, not in the CU301 box. Most of my customers have replaced that CU301 box 3-4 times in 5-10 years, so they don't even hesitate when they find out the CSV is so much more reliable.

 

[corpfan1]

Hey Valveman,

Thanks for all your info.

Yes he tested the old pump with the pressure switch and nothing. The new one works fine now with the pressure switch.

Talked to Grundfos today and a tech guy said that the old CU 301 v3 that I have dated 04/05 is no longer compatible with the new SQE pump that only V6 and V7 will work. Good to know. He said the chip in there won’t communicate with the new pump so the actual controller is probably still alive. Good to know that only certain versions work with certain pumps.

As for the CSV, Walmart Canada does list them:

https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Cycle-...-Control-Valve-15-psi-150-psi/PRD59UT89AMSR3S

Says it is in stock online, but of course doesn’t ship til August. I was considering it...but didn’t want to wait. Been enough unexpected stress already.

Got the controller close to cost. So will go with that. Grundfos ensured me I would get a 5year extended warranty due to the supplier being a Grundfos Waterpro Dealer. See image.

Probably will be moving in the next 2 years anyways, so if it dies out for any reason it will be someone else’s problem. At least I have my water back!



corpfan1