Second stimulus

Discussion in 'Ian's Corner' started by Ian Gills, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    I've been giving this a lot of thought recently and I think we need another stimulus if we're gonna get the economy going again.

    I'm worried about the large number of jobless and, mostly, the increasing number of Americans who are underwater with their homes.

    So, it's time for the Feds to start spending again. But if you find that unpalatable, you're definitely not going to like how I propose they spend your tax dollars this time (not that the last stimulus cost you anything, or the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for that matter, because all of that was borrowed).

    I think it's time Banks started to renegotiate with us the principals left on our mortgages using Government money to write off our mortgage debt.

    Here's why. If people have too much negative equity in their properties, then they are going to foreclose regardless of whether they have a job or not. Not much more than a 100k under and you're gonna be tempted to leave the key at the Bank. More foreclosures will depress property prices even further and the cycle continues, with the subsequent effects on the construction industry and everything else.

    So American taxpayers. Pay off some of my debt or I'll cost you.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  2. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    northfork, california
  3. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    That's great. See, it's not rocket science to help the poor is it?

    And taxes spent now will lead to more revenues later.
  4. pipehacker

    pipehacker New Member

    I have long felt that in bankruptcy a consumer should be able to reaffirm and repay his or her mortgage at a level equal to the value of the home. That is essentially what is done for corporations in a Chapter 11 bankruptcy and I see no reason why the practice could not be extended to the consumer. If the bank forecloses, they are going to recover only the value of the property anyway. Re a stimulas package, I suggest accomplishing the same end (an increase in consumer spending) by reducing taxes and reducing the need for taxes by decreasing government employment and programs.
  5. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    The problem of reducing taxes in the hope of getting people to spend more only really works if you lower the taxes on the poor.

    The rich save their cash and do not spend it.

    So we need to lower taxes on the poor and raise them on the rich.

    And reducing government employment would just cut demand even further. We need more Washingtom jobs telling the rest of America what to do.

    Most of the Federal employees I know could teach people from the rest of America a thing or two about how to live their lives and raise their children, so I say give them a go!

    Everything should be controlled from Washington. It's nice here!
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; The rich save their cash and do not spend it.

    Not really, but they already have enough money to buy what they want, so the tax breaks DO go into the bank, but not because they are "saving it", but because the "don't need it". The bankers stole 235 billions from the economy. THen Congress gave them a 235 billion dollar bailout, which they are in the process of stealing again, so they don't want to spend "their" money bailing out the homeowners.
  7. IAN is this you in the video????

    Ian , I thought you might like this video
    do you remember the first stimilus package that
    George Bush gave everyone???

    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2011
  8. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Look, if the more Conservative members do not agree to an extension of the debt ceiling then there will need to be another stimulus.

    Why are Americans so reluctant to borrow?
  9. Exactly who are they borrowing form IAN?????

    people dont have a clue....
    I honestly doubt you do either IAN...

    Explain to me exactly from whom are we borrowing from and to whom are we now in debt to by paying interest to for printing up money out of thin air????

    do you have any idea what you are talking about??

    why dont you sit back and watch this three hour video on how
    the world works and the history of how the planet has been
    taken over by international bankers...

    If it is too hard for you to comprehend, please just ask me
    to explain it to you

    the money masters


    and also you can watch .. the secret of OZ

    If you can sit still, and stay sober long enough to comprehend these videos , and want to have an intellegent conversation about this, please...lets do it....

    if you want to just sit and piss and moan about how you are not getting benefits, and how we should all borrow money from who knows who, and just kiss the queens ass. and be
    indentured servents to some nameless corporation who owns us...
    and not question any of this.... then ok.....
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2011
  10. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    I very much understand the economics of this Mark.

    Borrowing is good. Without it, you probably wouldn't own your own house, car or business. So let's get this idea that all borrowing is bad out of our heads.

    Who pays?

    Well, that depends where the money came from.

    You owe the Chinese a lot. Big deal. Just what's the problem? Are you really worried they're going to drop all that debt and kill the dollar? Of course not. They're not that stupid. They want to see what they are owed worth something. So that's not going anywhere and they will behave themselves.

    Printing money is of course the other option. Then who pays are: a) the Chinese (since they own the debt) and b) Americans with savings (mostly the rich) since the value of those dollars drops.

    A little bit of inflation doesn't do any harm. And it might even make the value of my home rise a little in dollar terms.

    So, again, it seems as though those of you with a few dollars are worried about giving something to those who don't. Everything in America comes down to that.

    I say it's time you pay up to help those less fortunate than yourselves! It will be good for your soul. Like the Bible says.

    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011

  11. you really dont get it.. do you??

    These "dark masters" have run this planet since
    we came out of the dark ages.....

    they are elite famlies that pretty much look at humanity like cattle and have fooled and horn-swaggled the world into paying them "tribute" or "interest" on something they have killed and bribed to have a monopoly on....

    so somehow due to laws passed centuries ago
    these families have the power to control every countries money supply....and your Queen and King go along with it or get thrown under the tracks ......

    They feel it is their devine right to print paper money out of thin air and sell it at interest to the world...

    they have starved off and sold off africa, and south america with this game of conquest, and now the USA is drowning in the debt we owe them is next...

    No country on earth can even pay the interest on the money to these parasites, it is total insanity
    and you state that we should borrow more paper from them so we can take care of the poor on the planet that they themselves have already sucked all the blood out of???

    It would be good for my soul to pay up and help all the less foutunate that they have already destroyed around the planet
    by borrowing more fake money from the same parasites ?

    I say it's time you pay up to help those less fortunate than yourselves! It will be good for your soul. Like the Bible says.

    Dont throw the bible at me, as far as forgiveness goes
    Would it not be better for all of humanity if these
    "dark masters" would simply forgive all the debt that they have tricked everyone into oweing them and simply start over????

    debt forgiveness..... everyone starts over at ZERO

    do you even have a clue to what fractional reserve banking is IAN???

    take the time to watch that first video please, then get back to me

  12. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Dark masters? Whatever next?

    So the Banks use their deposits to create ten times the credit? That's been the basis of banking since it started. Once again, without loans you would not own a home, car and (possibly) a business.

    All of this is propaganda.

    It's just an excuse to point the finger elsewhere. The unfortunate truth is the current crisis has been caused by America's failure to regulate its banking system properly.

    That's right regulate. No dark masters. No ghosts.

    Just a Federal Government that was too small to do the job.

    Regulate. Regulate. Regulate. This is what is needed.

    Reagan got it wrong. And the Founding Fathers also got it wrong.

    We need something new.
  13. watch the videos then we can talk

    I guess it all boils down to whos propaganda you are willing to buy into,
    wether it be the banksters, or the people who are trying to expose the hoax...

    so which side of the fence you are on..??. if you work for one of the elite few that
    collects the interest from the rest of us and ...."regulates it" then of course your mind is
    already closed

    and I doubt that you will actually ever sit down and watch
    either of the videos I suggested you should watch so we can
    actually have a decent discussion on this topic..

    your mind is made up without even a history
    lesson on how it has all come about........

    because its all propaganda.

    so just sit in your little "Ians corner" and pontificate..

    please watch this hour long video and tell me what you think
    if you are too dim-witted to understand what the felow is talking about
    I will understand...
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
  14. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    I do not have an hour or three to watch this sort of junk. I know the issues, so let's debate them!

    Why are you so worried about the debt Mark? Do you really want America to default on its debts in 15 days time?

    Imagine the field day I will have prodding you guys about Americans not paying their way. Surely it's worth extending the ceiling just to avoid that?

    The Queen always pays her debts. Not so sure about America though.

    Servicemen unpaid. The elderly not receiving their social security checks. It will be a shambles. The English would have run things better!
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
  15. you can sit here on the internet and pontificate for days on end
    talking out both ends of your ass...........
    but you do not have the time to watch a one hour movie
    and have the basic understanding of what you want to debate.......???

    I think you are craizer than cookie....
    at least she made some sense once in a while, when she was not feeling sorry for herself....

    Let me put it to you another way.... let us debate that movie, that link I left you to watch
    that you are too stubborn to waste your precious time on....

    if you ever find the time, watch that movie and get back to me
    if you are to pig-headed and prideful to perhaps learn something new...

    then I think I might as well be having a debate with a cow......

    and I cant waste any more time with you .........,..
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
  16. SteveW

    SteveW DIY Senior Member

    Omaha, NE
    Mark -
    Have you ever read "The Creature from Jekyll Island?" It details some of these same issues - how the international banking cartels have been behind wars and politics, etc. etc.

    Very sobering to read the economic rationale for allowing the Lusitania to be put in harm's way, just a sitting duck for a German torpedo, and all for $$$.

    I was a fan of Winston Churchill until learning of this.
  17. I will check it out..thank you

    Unlike the pontificateing dumbass that started this thread,

    I will take the time and make an effort to check out that book...

    I think that was ww1 we are talking about here..
    correct.... we have had to be suckered into 2 wars
    to bail ou tthe british...

    thank you...
  18. SteveW

    SteveW DIY Senior Member

    Omaha, NE
    Mark -
    Thank you for the kind words! I always appreciate your wisdom and common sense, whether about plumbing or politics.

    Yes, WWI (though some probably argue it helped set the stage for our involvement in WWII too.) Basically says that the "big money" families of the world (bankers, usually) pull the strings for most of the events of the world. Really sounds cold and calculating especially when they start talking about wars starting purely for the economic advantage of these behind-the-scenes families.

    The Lusitania was a British ocean liner, and in addition to its civilian passengers, was carrying a lot of munitions that the banking families were selling to Europe for WWI. According to the book, Churchill, who was Lord of the Admiralty at the time, knowingly let it sail into waters around Ireland where over 20 ships had been torpedoed by German U-boats in previous 5 days - knowing that it would likely be hit, and thus get the US involved in the war. Can you imagine letting a passenger ship, full of civilians, deliberately be sunk?

    My wife found the book truly scary and chilling when she read it -
  19. My wife found the book truly scary and chilling when she read it -

    its really nothing new ,,,

    It makes you wonder what new plans and schemes are being cooked up right now...... like when they finally destroy the currency and then demand payment for our homes and goods only in gold.. which will be in very short supply.... guess who will steal most of the property in the country

  20. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    You guys win your freedom and start worring about something else.

    It's all propaganda to divert your attention from the real issues. I'll watch the movie when I find an hour out of my precious time to do so.

    In the meantime I'll just keep feeding the masters.

    Like I said before, all we need to do is regulate and tax.

    Big money bankers ruling the world?

    One thing we can all agree on is that the Founding Fathers must have got things very wrong to let that one slip.

    I, for one, would not be surprised.

    So how would you fix it Mark? Obviously the Constitution would need to go because it would have failed. Democracy next (at least America's version) because big-money leads to influence. Which leaves you with not a lot. Not even a King.

    And Americans get into wars to save themselves, never others.

    World War II: you entered very late and only after the Japanese bombed you.

    Iraq: oil

    Afghanistan: fight the terrorists there or they will come here.

    All of America's involvement is about itself, not about freedom and not about other people. So where's the bail out of the British we were so eagerly awaiting? I say to you Pearl Harbor.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011

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