Sand Point Well; pump losing prime

[Gtrshop]

This is a problem I've been dealing with for some time.

I have a pump mounted on top of my water tank in the basement of my home. The inlet line runs 20' or 25' horizontally from where the line enters the house to the inlet of the pump (a Simler? Simer?). From where it enters the house to the well head is approximately 4 feet. This is all Black Plastic Pipe, with a grey plastic elbow to make the transition in direction 90 degrees.

Here's what happens: First thing in the morning the pump starts. Water will initially flow and then stop (this is the water that sits in the pipe when the pump isn't running). Because I've installed clear line in front of the pump for about 10 feet I can see that there is air in the line, and the pump is obviously cavatating. I can watch bubbles of air moving through the line upwards to the pump inlet. I can HEAR when air enters the pump, it sounds different. (I can see that the water isn't being drawn up far enough...there is a loop in the clear pipe so that we can move things around a bit to work....if water gets past the loop the pump will flow water). (Also, occasionally I can watch the water seems to "slip backwards" as if suction or something was lost). I crack the nut on the top of the pump, let the air out. (I am able to isolate the tank inlet from the pump outlet as I have a brass 1" valve between the two). I flood the pump from the tank using the valve, which pushes air out of the pump. Start pump and repeat priming 4,5,6....however many times it takes. I can watch the water flowing...or NOT flowing because of the clear line (reinforced). We have noticed that we will get prime back when the clear line starts to collapse onto itself. Now I know this is not ideal, this is just what is happening. I have no ideal if there is a check valve in this system, from everything I've seen so far there isn't one, but if I leave the system untouched for a couple days it will hold at 50PSI. So, I am thinking that a coupling (green in colour) that sits on top of the well pipe is actually a check valve. I can't get to the well head since there is a well tile and cap over it. ( That may be moved in the next day or so if I get enough muscle).

If I run the pump within an hour or so of re-priming it, it will usually hold prime and refill the tank. Filling the tank thats a long time. If I leave it unattended for 8 hours, I'll have to re-prime after getting home from work. The inlet line runs at about 3' off the floor until it transitions to clear line, which drops to the floor, then there is a small loop of clear, and the line runs up to the inlet of the pump. Where the BPP joins to the clear and it falls, while I'm running the pump and its primed, I can watch the water trickle and cascade down to floor level. The line is never full of water. (At this transition point I also installed a TEE and a valve so I could add water to the inlet line to re-prime. I had installed a check valve here, but that didn't do anything for me, and this was early on in my troubleshooting).

Asking other person about whats happening its been mentioned that I may have a leak somwhere, but I feel it's not between the pump INLET and the GREEN COUPLING (that might be a check valve) since pressure stays up when system not in use.

The sand point pipe transitions from a large pipe to a smaller diameter pipe which has the green coupling, and that I think is larger than then 1" line that enters the house, but I'm not 100% certain of that.

I guess I'm asking for a couple opinions, and perhaps how to tell if it could be the check valve that might be bad. It was mentioned to me that the valve might hold back pressure, but may have trouble opening.

I also want to mention that my water is very cloudy -with air. You can watch it fizz away in a glass. I believe that so much air is being cavatated that its being compressed into the water and then when the water leaves the tap it escapes, but the water looks very cloudy first. A tap mounted water filet removes the bubbles and the water is clear. I also have 2 filters - a 25 micron and a 5 micron after the first - located after the tank to remove the iron algae.

Feel free to ask for more details. I have some pictures that I could post too, just not here.

EDIT... this is the clearest picture of the green coupling I can get. Is this the check valve?

 

[Valveman]

I do believe that is a check valve. I am going to guess that the iron algae is clogging up the perforations in your well screen.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Gtrshop]

If that's the case, that iron algae is clothing the screens, what do, what can I do about it? And, how long does the "repair" last?

 

[Valveman]

You can pull the screen and manually clean it or maybe something like New Well tabs will open it back up. You can connect the suction of the pump to a barrel or other water source to make sure the pump is OK. And if it is OK then you most likely have a clogged well screen.

 

[Reach4]

If that's the case, that iron algae is clothing the screens, what do, what can I do about it? And, how long does the "repair" last?

Disinfecting your well and system would stop things that are growing there. How soon things would start growing later would depend on the well. Couple years? Depends. Use of a flooding volume will help keep the infections away longer. A good well cap should help too. This is my favorite method: http://www.moravecwaterwells.com/index.php/maintainance/disinfection-and-testing Most people use a much less rigorous method-- pour xx amount of bleach into the well, recirculate for a while, and dump. The method in the link explains why the more complex methods are better. Disinfection should be redone after you do well work.

It is possible that the disinfection could open a bio-clog, but I don't know. Disinfecting after a mechanical cleaning would be good.

 

[Gtrshop]

By pulling the screen, you mean pulling the sand point UP? That is definitely not in my skill set. As of 6AM this morning we are unable to get any water out of well. Prime, re prime. Nothing coming into house.

What is a BIO Clog? How much do people usually charge for something like this? I've manage to get the cemet tile off the top of the well so now ther is access to the top of the well/pipe.

This is whats down there:

 

[Reach4]

1. I used the term bio-clog to mean a clog due to something growing (biological). It is not an established common term, and now that I think about it, I should have used better wording. I am not familiar with iron algae, but I figure bleach can kill it.

2. I believe in sanitizing wells anyway. "Like this"? Sanitizing? I don't know. It seems to me that it is an activity that takes time and does not require the specialized skills of a well specialist. But I expect that the well specialist could do the job, but if it takes 3 hours, that is not the highest use of his time IMHO.

3. I would avoid steel pipe for wells except where you need more strength than PVC or other alternatives can provide. Driving a well point would be something that needs extra strength. But galvanized rusts, so adds iron to the water. So when you get something that carries your potable water changed out, I would opt away from galvanized if you can.

4. What a well specialist could do, I expect, is to get you water quickly. Are sand points common in your area (Toronto area or your Florida property?)? I wonder if it might be worthwhile to get a conventional well with a 5 inch casing and a submersible pump. That would cost some bucks, but it would give you a reliable clean quiet water supply.

I am not a pro.

 

[Gtrshop]

Sand points are the norm here. I will not be staying here more than 5 years, so puitting in a dug or drilled well isn't going to happen. Can't afford that anyways.

 

[Valveman]

Or it might be easier to just drive in a new point.

 

[PumpMd]

You can test the sand point well by putting smaller pipe than the diameter of your sand point pipe, to see if it is just a leak around the water level in your sand point well pipes and it will let you know if your sand point well is clogged up as well.

 

[Gtrshop]

Yesterday morning water stopped flowing completely. We are bailing water from a neighbour into our tub, and using a siphon line to feed into tot he pump to pressurize tank so we can function. Another pump is being brought over tonight to see if the pump has quit, or just doesn't have the ability to draw from the well. A good friend contractor and former neighbour is doing the grunt work since my wrist can't take that kind of work any longer. If the pump checks out ok, the next thing will be to change out the check valve and test... that's the last thing before considering a new sand point - which he said hed drive if it came down to it.

 

[Gtrshop]

We tested a new pump on the well. Didn't resolve aything. Pulled the pipe off the top of the well and dropped a string down it. We got to 16 or 17 feet and were stopped. A blockage or something. The next day we got a 4,000PSI pressure washer and blaster it down, removing the blockage (iron algae we think). After doing that, and flushing with well, we dropped a garden hose for the neighbour down the well pipe. We measured 37' from top of well pipe to where the hose stopped. Ran the water at the bottom, working it up and down...ran that until it started clearing up. Primed the lines back to house, filled well with garden hose, and connected the two up. Fired up the pump, and we were still unable to draw water. We left the problem for the day as it wa getting dark. But the ideas are as follows... 1/ the system is sealed to the house, so use the water tank to put pressure on the well and see of the 40 to 50 PSI will "encourage" the junk in the well.. in the screen(?) to dislodge. 2/ toying with the idea of putting a cap on the well with an air fitting and pressurizing the well pipe to as hig as we can.... perhaps accomplishing the same as #1... Failing that and further rinsing... not sure what to do.