Reset switch questions

[eltinnc]

What exactly is this reset switch? I can see that it supplies power to the pressure switch, but what does it do, and how does it work? What are the conditions that would cause it to need to be reset?

Here is what’s happening. Three times in the past three days our water has been suddenly cut off—not gradual loss of pressure, but abruptly—one time you open the faucet, pressure is normal, next time, not a drop. The circuit breaker was not tripped, and there were no signs of leakage either between the well and house or inside the house.

I checked the pressure gauge at the storage tank, and it read 0 PSI. I flipped the pictured reset switch “on” then “off” (according to the way it’s labeled), and the pump started. In the first two instances, the pressure reading shot from 0 to 40 the instant I flipped the switch, and the pump stayed on. The pressure then gradually built to 60 and the pump shut off. All then appeared normal for the better part of a day.

In the third instance, which was just this morning, when I flipped the reset switch “on” then “off”, the pressure remained at 0 PSI, and the pump ran only a few seconds before shutting off. I flipped the switch a second time, and the pressure went immediately from 0 to 40, the pump stayed on, the pressure gradually built to 60, and the pump cycled off. Since then, all has appeared normal. The pressure is maintained between 40 and 60 PSI, which is right where its set.

That’s all the symptoms I can think of to give you. So the question is, what is it that is causing the system to need to be reset?

The pressure switch, tank, and gauge were all replaced in July 2016. If I can provide any other helpful information, please let me know.

Eldon

 

[Valveman]

I wish I could see the picture of the switch, but I don't think it is causing the problem. I think it is probably just a breaker or regular on/off switch. I believe the overload in the motor is tripping, mainly because this is something I hear everyday. No water for a little while then all of a sudden water again? Flipping the switch on and off is probably just a coincidence. If that is the case the cycling between 40 and 60 has taken its tole, and you will probably soon need a new motor. If it is a 3 wire pump with a control box, you might be lucky enough to be able to replace the capacitor and/or relay and get it back to going. Start cap and relay going out are also signs of the pump cycling itself to death.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[eltinnc]

Thank you for your response, Valveman.

I wish I could see the picture of the switch, but I don't think it is causing the problem.

I wish you could, too. I don’t think the switch is the problem either. The questions is what is it that is causing it to need to be reset.

No water for a little while then all of a sudden water again?

This is not happening spontaneously of it’s own accord. The “no water” period ends when I flip the switch. The pressure in the tank is evidently not dropping during the “no water” periods because the instant I flip the switch it reads 40 PSI, and we have full pressure at the faucet.

If that is the case the cycling between 40 and 60 has taken its tole, … Start cap and relay going out are also signs of the pump cycling itself to death.

I apologize for the confusion, Valveman, I perhaps used the wrong term here. I do not mean cycling in the sense of the pump continuously cycling on and off. I meant it in terms of the proper pressure cycle. When, through normal water usage, the tank pressure drops to 40, the pump kicks in and brings it back to 60 PSI where it remains until, through normal usage, the pressure again drops to 40. The pump is not cycling excessively. Hope that clarifies this point.

 

[Valveman]

We got to see this switch. Bottom right on the page it says "Upload a File". It will let you browse your computer for a JPEG picture, then hit upload.

When, through normal water usage, the tank pressure drops to 40, the pump kicks in and brings it back to 60 PSI where it remains until, through normal usage, the pressure again drops to 40. The pump is not cycling excessively. Hope that clarifies this point.

Nothing wrong with that as long as the water use is intermittent. But what happens when you run hose, sprinkler, or even a long shower? Those are the cycles I am talking about, which are not good.

 

[eltinnc]

We got to see this switch. Bottom right on the page it says "Upload a File". It will let you browse your computer for a JPEG picture, then hit upload.

That was what I tried initially. It says file (606K) is too big, cannot upload. I will reduce it's size and try again.

Nothing wrong with that as long as the water use is intermittent. But what happens when you run hose, sprinkler, or even a long shower? Those are the cycles I am talking about, which are not good.

Pressure drop under those conditions is gradual. There is no excessive cycling.

 

[eltinnc]

That was what I tried initially. It says file (606K) is too big, cannot upload. I will reduce it's size and try again.

Here we go. Image quality isn't great, but hope this helps

 

[Valveman]

That was what I tried initially. It says file (606K) is too big, cannot upload. I will reduce it's size and try again.

I open the file with "Paint" and downsize by 50% or so and re-save. Then it will be small enough to easily upload here.

Pressure drop under those conditions is gradual. There is no excessive cycling.

Excessive cycling is a relative term. I am just trying to figure out what is causing the "re-set" to trip. Usually it is cycling, but it could be an under-load reset of some kind. Everyday someone tells me their pump "really doesn't cycle much, maybe every minute or two". When I point out that there are 1440 minutes in the day and do the math for them, they are shocked to see how many times the pump is cycling. Cycling every minute or two will eventually trip the overload, which just means you have already used up most or all of the cycles built into the pump/motor.

 

[Valveman]

Here we go. Image quality isn't great, but hope this helps
View attachment 37551

Wow, really old breaker of some kind. That maybe your only problem. Replace it with a regular breaker.

 

[eltinnc]

Wow, really old breaker of some kind. That maybe your only problem. Replace it with a regular breaker.

What might be the reason for the pressure remaining at 0 when I flip the switch on one occasion, and bolting instantly from 0 to 40 on another, even though the pump starts up in both cases?

 

[Valveman]

What might be the reason for the pressure remaining at 0 when I flip the switch on one occasion, and bolting instantly from 0 to 40 on another, even though the pump starts up in both cases?

My guess is that the pump is not starting when the pressure is zero. I think the overload in the motor is tripping, and even when you throw the switch on, it doesn't come on until the automatic overload in the motor resets itself.

 

[eltinnc]

My guess is that the pump is not starting when the pressure is zero. I think the overload in the motor is tripping, and even when you throw the switch on, it doesn't come on until the automatic overload in the motor resets itself.

I believe the pump is starting when the pressure is 0, Valveman. In my initial post when I said that the pressure remained at 0 PSI, and the pump ran only a few seconds before shutting off, that was based on the fact that I can hear an audible rumble when the pump is running and the clear difference when it stops. I was able to verify that this morning, as the water abruptly cut off again. Here is today’s update.

The pressure gauge read 0.

I flipped what I am calling the ‘reset switch’ (meaning that I flipped the handle ON then OFF), and the pump started (I can hear the audible rumble), but the pressure remained at 0. The pump ran a few seconds (maybe 10?) and shut off. When it shuts off, I hear a click from the ‘reset switch’, but the handle remains in the same position. I believe you are probably correct that this ‘reset switch’ is actually a breaker.

I waited a couple of minutes and flipped the ‘reset switch’ again. Same result.

I waited a couple of minutes and flipped the ‘reset switch’ a third time. The pump starts, the pressure struggles—not shoots—up to 40 PSI, wavers, then drops back to 0, and the pump shuts off, all this within a few seconds.

I waited a couple of minutes and flipped the ‘reset switch’ a fourth time. This time the pump starts, the pressure instantly shoots up to 40 PSI, the pump stays on, the pressure climbs to 60 PSI, and the pump shuts off—there is no click from the ‘reset switch’ as the pump shuts off.

The water is now on, and all has been good for the past few hours.

Any help from anyone will be much appreciated!

Eldon

 

[Valveman]

Your going to need to make sure that switch isn't the problem before you can look any further. Replace it.

 

[TVL]

What exactly is this reset switch?

I haven't seen one of those switches in a long while! It is a thermal overload switch ......... basically a breaker. If it is indeed what I suspect, there is a "heater element" inside of the switch box. The element is wired along with the switch and current passes through the element. The plug-in element is sized to handle a specific amount of current; say maybe 10 amps or whatever. If the current exceeds the amount the element can handle it will be heated to the point it trips the switch. As mentioned, the heater elements can be sized to handle more current if desired. However, your unit is probably sized correctly and is tripping for a reason, UNLESS a larger load (new pump) was recently introduced and is pulling more current than the element was designed for.

And yes, those elements can get weak and may need replacing if nuisance trips occur. But, that is rare from my experience!

 

[eltinnc]

Thanks for the response, tvl. I guess the next question would be, with what can I replace this old switch?

Interestingly, the water hasn't gone out now since 8 AM Saturday, 56 hours ago. For the past several days I'd been having to reset the pump at 6 to 12 hour intervals, so that's quite a change. I don't miss being in the crawl space during what have been by far the coldest two days of the season, of course, but I'd feel a lot better if I knew the reason why.

 

[Reach4]

I don't miss being in the crawl space during what have been by far the coldest two days of the season, of course, but I'd feel a lot better if I knew the reason why.

That's not very handy. If that is a 110 V pump that has its own breaker in the breaker box, you could replace that switch with a regular switch in an electrical box. If it is a 220 V pump with a 2-pole breaker in the breaker box, you could replace that switch with a 2 pole switch in an electrical box.

 

[eltinnc]

That's not very handy. If that is a 110 V pump that has its own breaker in the breaker box, you could replace that switch with a regular switch in an electrical box. If it is a 220 V pump with a 2-pole breaker in the breaker box, you could replace that switch with a 2 pole switch in an electrical box.

Thanks, Reach4 ... Does that mean that the thermal overload function (heater element) of the current switch is not necessary?

 

[TVL]

Thanks for the response, tvl. I guess the next question would be, with what can I replace this old switch?

Well, that all depends:

1- Is the thermal overload switch the one and only protection the motor has for an over current condition?

2- Or, is the thermal overload switch merely a redundant device?

3- It would also be recommended to verify that switch truly does have a heater element inside the case as I am assuming. It really may not be a thermal overload protection device as I am assuming, but a simple switch in disguise ....... but based on previous experience, I feel fairly confident it's a thermal overload switch.

So, if it's truly a thermal overload device AND it's the only protection for the motor (and there's no breaker upstream feeding the switch), then you can't simply remove it. As far as I know they still do make those switches and offer parts. If it's truly a redundant over current protection device, then I see no practical reason for having it. It may be someone just wanted to have a cutoff switch nearby without having to go back to the breaker box and the thermal overload switch was used because it was readily available???? I guess more information is needed to determine if it can be removed OR if it must be serviced/replaced if it continues to give problems!

 

[eltinnc]

Thanks for that specific information, TVL. The pump does have its own 2-pole breaker in the breaker box. Sorry for the delayed response, I haven’t been back in the crawl space to examine the switch, I’ve been holding my breath …

I haven’t had to flip the reset switch to restart the pump since 8 a.m. Saturday morning. The water has remained on for over 98 hours through showers, dishwashing, laundry day, and even a couple of dog washings. For the five days prior to Saturday, I had been having to restart the pump every 6 to 12 hours. That prompts a couple of questions:

1. Does the fact that I have not had to reset the pump for four days exclude the pump as the cause of the problem? Does it exclude anything else as being a likely cause of the problem?

2. Is this relief from the problem weather related? Saturday was just about the time the temperature really fell off the cliff here in NC. Connected, or coincidence? I will be very interested to see if the problem resumes now that it has begun to warm up again. If it is weather related, what clues does that furnish as to the cause of the problem?

Thank you again, all who have responded, for your help.

 

[Valveman]

Some overloads compensate for ambient temperature. But I don't know about that particular one. A lot of the time an overload tripping can have more to do with the way water is being used. Any difference in water use patterns when the overload was tripping?

 

[eltinnc]

Normal water usage patterns.