Raimondi Tile Leveling System

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by Natup, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. Natup

    Natup New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Location:
    Toronto
    Hi all - first time poster; long time reader. I'm gearing up for a complete DIY bathroom reno. I was thinking about purchasing the Raimondi Tile Leveling System as I have large format tiles. To anyone who has used this system: Can I get away with just purchasing the wall plier for both walls and floor (the floor space is relatively small).

    Thanks,
    Hal
    Toronto, ON
     
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
  3. Sponsor

    Sponsor Paid Advertisement

     
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    A leveling system won't correct an improperly prepped floor, but will help keep the tile in nice alignment. Regardless, it is critical on any tile install to have full coverage on all edges and at least 80% (100% should be your goal) of the interior of the tile. Tiling 101, periodically, after setting, pull up a tile (or membrane, or whatever) and check your coverage. You may need to adjust your thinset, trowel, or technique.
     
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    FWIW, the instructions on most (if not all) of the leveling systems tell you to not put the clips right at the corner, otherwise, you could snap it off. If you install the clips and thinset the job properly, the edges are fully supported. Your goal should be to get the entire tile fully supported, but they allow some leeway on the interior. Depending on the tile, the substrate, and the thinset used, you may want to wait longer than overnight to knock the tabs off. This is especially true if you're using a membrane and a modified thinset, which could take a very long time for the modifiers to dry. The larger the tile, the longer the wait (when using a modified).
     
  6. cheakamus

    cheakamus New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    From the Urban Dictionary:
    1. just sayin'
    word of the day: January 18, 2011
    a term coined to be used at the end of something insulting or offensive to take the heat off you when you say it.
     
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    And, you'll note I said the same thing...100% of the edges, and 80% minimum of the interior (with 100% being the goal).

    It's just John throwing darts again.
     
  8. Natup

    Natup New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Location:
    Toronto
    Jim - thanks kindly for the link - unfortunately I didn't find reference to the tool specification (wall or floor) issue. I am gutting the bathroom down to joists and studs to create a perfectly flat floor (and walls).

    John (btw - I love your work on HouseBuzz)- large format tiles? - perhaps not the best idea for the diyer - but I am determined (and perhaps overly confident; and certainly too poor to afford a high-end (and frankly hard to find) tiler here in Toronto). Regardless, I can live with my own imperfections - Just saying :rolleyes:

    My understanding was that the system might help reduce lipage - especially on the long format parcelanosa wall tile (below).

    btw - I was under the impression that some of the images that you have posted elsewhere contained leveling clips?? I suppose you believe that with the RLS the tiles might crack and dislodge?


    p-casona_casta--ape-o.jpg

    Thanks,
    Hal
     
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    One installer that has done this a lot claims he uses the TLS and can remove the (slight) bow on long tiles like that. It will always make the adjacent tile edges level with each other, but if the tile isn't flat, that may not mean no lippage. I'm a little skeptical, but he says he does it all of the time. This system (http://www.flooringsupplyshop.com/raimondi-tile-leveling-system-rls-standard-kit-100-1551.html is similar to the LASH system, but comes with a tool...on LASH, you just use your fingers to slide the wedge tight. The TLS's tool is more like an adjustable zip tie gun. You can use it to break the tab after the thinset cures as well by adjusting it tighter to snap it off.
     
  10. Natup

    Natup New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Location:
    Toronto
    OK, thanks guys. Lots to consider. I now have the floor removed - sistering joists to create level. Unfortunately, its the only bath/shower in the house - seems like a long way off to tiling (and showering). John, I may pick you brain a bit to consider lighting. Will head to your site when I get a chance..
     
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    The report discusses leaving spacers in place as a possible source of discoloration. The leveling systems clips are designed to break off at the base, essentially the bottom of the tile. Good prep prior to grouting should remove any bits, if there were any, and make this a non-issue. The only situation where it is more likely to happen would be with maybe a glass tile, or a VERY thin one, and those aren't good candidates for those leveling systems for the most part, partly because they tend to be small, and partly because they may be transparent or translucent, so ANYTHING under them would show, especially poor technique with the mortar, and almost certainly what was left of any leveling clip.

    Some grout color unevenness goes away after things fully cure, too, but could be an issue for the first day or two. Similar to some porous stones becoming discolored by the moisture from the thinset...depending on the situation, it can take a couple of weeks for it to return to 'normal'.
     
  12. DougB

    DougB Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Occupation:
    Software Developer / Engineer
    Location:
    Minneapolis - Land of 10,000 taxes
    I doubt that you have ever used these, just more noise. Read this:

    There are two groups of people in the world. In one group are those who think they know things. In the other are the people who think those in the first group are idiots.

    The Original Skeptic

    But it was the great Pyrrho from Elis who developed the philosophy we know today as “skepticism.†Loosely, a skeptic is someone who suspects that other people don’t know nearly as much as they think they do. And loosely speaking, the skeptics are mostly right.
     
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    FWIW, when that report was written, few, if any, of these self-leveling systems were around. They were talking about leaving a tile spacer in there, and saying it could cause variations on grout color...well, duh, the grout would be almost non-existent if it was not removed.

    I've read lots of user comments on the things. One guy said his wall tile came off the next day, but then he admitted when they did, he didn't use the minimum trowel notch, didn't back butter the large tiles, and only had 10-20% coverage...well, again, duh...RTFM! Most of the other people complaining weren't using the proper trowel, either, or backbuttering the tile, or picking one up occasionally to verify they had good coverage. As with anything, there's a right way, and a wrong way to use it...it's unreasonable to expect great results when it is used incorrectly.

    For a DIY'er, with large tile, even if you do need to spend a bit more time cleaning up the grout lines after setting, you'll end up with a better result, faster. A pro, maybe, depends. Few DIY'ers set lots of tile, and these aids, used properly, do help. Enough so, that some pros use them all of the time on big tile, too. On big jobs, it's not uncommon to have a lower paid helper, so leaving the cleanup to him, if the pro can set faster, still ends up saving money because of the speed he can set the tile.
     
  14. chefwong

    chefwong Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Location:
    District of Columbia
    JW : But you use the same system in this pic :eek:
    http://www.houzz.com/photos/1110186/Best-work-practices-for-a-bathroom-renovation-bathroom-vancouver

    I don't have a horse in this race, but I do own and have used the TLS system once on a remodel. Doe's it make me a better setter. No.
    Half of tile setting is not only the application itself, but layout and grout color is KEY. It does however maintain a level tile plane as long as the ~setter~ at the end of the day is ensuring proper tile coverage....it's only as good as the *tool* who is using/setting in . Then again, isn't that the universal rule in life. You get what you put into it...
     
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    A person can get (whatever) tile he choses all in a plane, easier with one of these systems. The end result, agreed, is more than just getting the tile in place, but it is a critical item on any install. Can it be done without one of these systems? Certainly, and if you are very skilled, you may be able to do it faster, but the average DIY'er does not have the skills to achieve this without a lot of time and care. And some, no matter how hard they try, without something like this, would end up with the tile less than perfect. You can still mess up the spacing with one of these systems, but at least the lippage will be minimal.
     
  16. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD for both Canada & the US

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Occupation:
    Design Work World Wide: Bathrooms Vancouver Area
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Lash vs Raimondi Clips

    Lash Clip:

    [​IMG]

    Photo: Imagine Source

    Raimondi Clip:

    [​IMG]

    Photo: Image Source

    You can see that the clip has a flat bottom - not curled. Much better design. See in the picture above there is no thin-set between the top of the clip and the bottom of the tile. Thin-set does not stick to plastic that well so every clip equates to a little lack of bond.

    I'm pretty sure the TCNA will approve these clips - there are just to many people making them. I'm pretty sure we will see a spike in "Indent Fractures" as well. Time will tell....
     
  17. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD for both Canada & the US

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Occupation:
    Design Work World Wide: Bathrooms Vancouver Area
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
  18. chefwong

    chefwong Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Location:
    District of Columbia
    I'll admit, I have hd concerns on what ill effects the leftover clip has relative to the grout (both in proper coverage). Color is not a issue for for as the only grouts I use is Epoxy.

    Maybe it's time for another mad scientist test ?
    Install clips. Break clips off per manuf. recommend instructions.
    Break clip off and do a ~cutaway~ shot.

    The trick is how to cut it to get the *cutaway shot*
     
  19. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD for both Canada & the US

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Occupation:
    Design Work World Wide: Bathrooms Vancouver Area
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Chef I think a better test is to see how the tile holds up to an impact blow. Like dropping a hammer from 3' on the tile's edge....

    I still have another 30 shear tests to run.

    I watch the video above and like the levelling clip he is using.

    I wonder if the system would be stronger if you say - spot dabbed some thin-set on the clips base... Top and bottom so there is a thin-set bite from both ends? Hmmm.

    What is great about the ProLeveling system is no Stupid Toy Gun!
     
  20. chefwong

    chefwong Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Location:
    District of Columbia
    JW.

    Back onto the Stupid Toy Gun Comments. The TLS straps where built on the same ~tensioning~ of wire ties for removal. I can't comment about any other system other than the TLS. The design of how thick the strap is, the *breakaway* slits in them, etc. These toy guns can range from $25 to $250 + on these strap guns. Wire guys (mainly low voltage* guys use who use such strapping systems day in and day out, the better guns will cut the wire ties with no *sharp edge*, correctly tensioned to hold the wire bundle yet not be too tight on what may be 22AWG wires. Just FWIW on those toy guns....
     
  21. chefwong

    chefwong Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Location:
    District of Columbia
    Hmmmm....I've really yet to read into all the comments on this thread.

    I'll attest to porcelain and a proper substrate. Some buffoon...to be un-named, HAS dropped a 14 V drill battery on porcelain from about 6 1/2 feet high at least 3-5 times to date, and nary a crack or sign of damage to the porcelain tile...
     
Similar Threads: Raimondi Tile
Forum Title Date
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Bad Tile Installer? Need advice Jul 17, 2016
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Hole too big in tile for tub spout. The fix...Moen 3857. May 13, 2016
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Tile choice for shower wall Apr 17, 2016
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Decorative Tiles on Shower Ceiling? Apr 14, 2016
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Tile flange trimmed on acrylic tub--can I still use tub? Mar 24, 2016

Share This Page