Pump check valve or pipe leaking.

[Valveman]

The two bleeders are designed to drain the pipe from the check valve at the tank down to the bleeder. When the pump comes back on this pipe full of air gets shot into the tank, which is how it maintains the air charge needed. There is probably another check valve in the well above the upper bleeder. This check valve should keep the pressure tank from losing pressure when no water is being used. But if that check valve is not working, you can add another in that line going into the tank.

And the Michigan law about the extra check valve is for bladder tank type systems. Air over water tank system must have the check valve above ground, or able the bleeders to work properly. The above ground check valve on an air charge system doesn't cause a negative pressure in the underground line, because the bleeders let it drain out.

 

[Topgun510]

The two bleeders are designed to drain the pipe from the check valve at the tank down to the bleeder. When the pump comes back on this pipe full of air gets shot into the tank, which is how it maintains the air charge needed. There is probably another check valve in the well above the upper bleeder. This check valve should keep the pressure tank from losing pressure when no water is being used. But if that check valve is not working, you can add another in that line going into the tank.

And the Michigan law about the extra check valve is for bladder tank type systems. Air over water tank system must have the check valve above ground, or able the bleeders to work properly. The above ground check valve on an air charge system doesn't cause a negative pressure in the underground line, because the bleeders let it drain out.

Thanks for all your help. I'll get a check valve tonight after work and report back with my results.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[LLigetfa]

The bleeders by themselves would never open if there was not a checkvalve above them so the blame for the backflow is a failed checkvalve, not the bleeder. On a double bleeder system the top one is meant to work in place of a snifter.

Putting a checkvalve in the house is illegal in some states and rightfully so. If the line from the well to the house were to develop a leak, the water could become contaminated.

EDIT: Didin't see valveman's post. I should clarify that a checkvalve alone (without snifter) could/would create a partial vacuum in the line. The snifter on a checkvalve with a snifter, would relieve the suction and reduce how much contamination could enter a leaky pipe.

 

[Reach4]

I suspect that thing on the horizontal pipe is the check valve.
Can you read any markings on that?

 

[Valveman]

The bleeders by themselves would never open if there was not a checkvalve above them so the blame for the backflow is a failed checkvalve, not the bleeder. On a double bleeder system the top one is meant to work in place of a snifter.

Putting a checkvalve in the house is illegal in some states and rightfully so. If the line from the well to the house were to develop a leak, the water could become contaminated.

EDIT: Didin't see valveman's post. I should clarify that a checkvalve alone (without snifter) could/would create a partial vacuum in the line. The snifter on a checkvalve with a snifter, would relieve the suction and reduce how much contamination could enter a leaky pipe.

Yeah I don't like it either. But it is legal and even common in most states. I talked to a pump man the other day that does all of his wells like that. Calls it a bleed back system. All the lines from the tank (check valve/Schrader) at the house drain back to the well. This is apparently done mainly to keep the lines from the well to the house from freezing. Deeper water lines and a pitless adapter would be my choice, but I guess there are occasions when those are not possible for some reason. The problem he was having at the moment was water hammer. When the pump came on, water was rushing from the well, pushing the air in the line to the check valve at the tank, which was 200' or so away. When the air pressure in the pipe exceeded the water pressure on the other side of the check valve, the check valve would blast open as cause a big water hammer. Then the air was followed by the water, which made another water hammer when it hit the tank.

We use to do systems like that back in the 60's. Back then all you had was galvanized tanks, and you needed the air charge. It was said to be an added benefit that the lines drained back to the well, so they would not freeze. We would also pile cotton burrs and hay over the well heads to keep them from freezing. It was many years before someone showed me a pitless adapter. No Internet in those days.

 

[Valveman]

I suspect that thing on the horizontal pipe is the check valve.
Can you read any markings on that?

Looks like and old WOG valve to me. Need a Cresent wrench on the flats to open/close it.

 

[Reach4]

Looks like and old WOG valve to me. Need a Cresent wrench on the flats to open/close it.

So that picture does not show the pipe from the well.

 

[Topgun510]

Installed the check valve just before the tank. The well guy called at the end the of the day and we discussed the symptoms in more detail. Pretty much agreed that there is a bad check valve near the top my drop pipe below my pitless adapter. We would have to pull it up in order to fix that. He said he wouldn't be able to make it out until Monday. When I asked if I could add this check valve before the tank, he thought for a moment and said that I could and that I would save him a trip so long as I was mechanically inclined enough to do so. I work on cars for a living so I gave it whirl. I hope I never have to pull up that pump. If I do, I might try it using the winch and the boom on the wrecker. I should probably fab up a device to connect to this pitless before I need it. Thanks for all your help guys.

 

[Topgun510]

So that picture does not show the pipe from the well.

That pipe does come from the well to the pressure tank and that is indeed the valve as valveman suggested. The markings on it is "Rockford" on one side and "1.25" on the other.

 

[Reach4]

That pipe does come from the well to the pressure tank and that is indeed the valve as valveman suggested. The markings on it is "Rockford" on one side and "1.25" on the other.

You should not have a shut-off valve between the pump an the pressure tank. If somebody closes it, the pump water will not be able to reach the pressure switch, so the pump will continue to run with nowhere for the water to go. At least your valve is not easy to operate.

There is a good chance that you will hear a bit of a bang as the water hits the check valve. Your topside check valve is a workaround. If you replace the pump some day, you may replace more than the pump. At a minimum you will preferably take the guts out of the topside check valve. But you may decide to get rid of all galvanized and put in a diaphragm precharged pressure tank.

 

[Topgun510]

You should not have a shut-off valve between the pump an the pressure tank. If somebody closes it, the pump water will not be able to reach the pressure switch, so the pump will continue to run with nowhere for the water to go. At least your valve is not easy to operate.

I thought about taking it out but I figured it was there so I reinstalled it. This gets water flowing for now.

There is a good chance that you will hear a bit of a bang as the water hits the check valve. Your topside check valve is a workaround. If you replace the pump some day, you may replace more than the pump. At a minimum you will preferably take the guts out of the topside check valve. But you may decide to get rid of all galvanized and put in a diaphragm precharged pressure tank.

We'll cross that bridge when we get there. Someday when we have a major remodel, I'll factor in update/ upgrade the well at that point.

 

[Reach4]

My water comes from the well into my basement via a 3/4 polyethylene pipe inserted into the original 1-1/4 galvanized from the well.

 

[LLigetfa]

Installed the check valve just before the tank...

Do keep in mind that the checkvalve there will create a partial vacuum in the line which, if there is a leak in the underground pipe, can cause your water to become contaminated. All too often, quick temporary fixes have a habit of becoming permanent.