Pump advice and DIY advice? Can it be done.

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by boerdoc, Aug 17, 2008.

  1. boerdoc

    boerdoc New Member

    Messages:
    49
    After much debate with myself I have decided to separate the home water and the irrigation (hydrant) water. To do so I will have to place a new pump in an existing well that is not being used. The well is 500 ft deep with the water level at 15 ft. The 6 in casing is 19 ft deep and the well is lined with 4 in. schedule 40 pvc the full depth. Last year during our worst drought and at the driest time of the year it produced 1.1 gal/min. The water tested well for quality (no coliforms, nitrates). We will use this for the house needs. Now I need to add a pump. How deep can I drop a pump without a pump truck? What pumps sizing Gal/min and HP? Can we use 200 psi poly for the whole depth? My electrician and plumber can do all the connections so that will not be a concern. We will need to use a pitless due to frost conditions. The house is only 40 ft away and actually lower elevation than the water level of the well on the main floor..
  2. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    With well at 500 ft deep and water at 15 ft from the surface, you have about 300 gallons of water available in the 4" pipe. That is a full day of usage for most households.

    A Goulds 5GS07 3/4 HP pump will deliver 1.6 GPM at 40 psi with water level down to 420 ft. The pump and motor together weigh about 34 pounds. http://www.goulds.com/pdf/7310.pdf

    The production rate of 1.1 GPM should really include a depth to water at which the recharge rate was measured. A 500 well will produce more when pumped down near the level of the aquifer than it will when the water level is near the static level.

    Poly pipe, 1" Iron Pipe Size, 200 psi rating, weighs 0.234 lb/ft. You can also get 265 psi rated pipe at 0.291 lb/ft.
    http://www.vylonpipe.com/brochures/HDPEBrochure.pdf

    Cable (12/2 submersible pump cable) is about 0.1 lb/ft.
    http://www.wwpp.us/cable/flat-wire.shtml

    The whole assembly will weigh about 200 pounds for a 400 ft depth to pump.

    If I were doing the job I would figure that I could put it in to the full depth with myself and one of my sons, using the means described below.

    The water in the well will pretty much balance the effect of the weight of the poly pipe when going down so the net weight will be close to 100 pounds when installing the pump.

    Nobody here thinks of the rope as a safety device but it is a lot easier to control if you are lowering a pump because you can hold a lot if you take a turn around a solid object and let it slide. It is a little harder to grip the pipe and control it.

    It's another story coming up. For that you would want a pulley and a couple of strong guys or a hitch on a vehicle.

    If I were doing it I would put in two posts with a beam across them to hang things from and to lower the pump and pipe. The beam is a pair of 2x8's with a pulley or rod between them to hold the rope for lowering.

    Run the rope through a pulley or rod mounted on the beam, and take a full turn around a nearby post, and you can control the lowering of the pump and pipe with one hand.

    If you want to do it I will make a picture for you.
  3. boerdoc

    boerdoc New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Bob, You are such a great resource. A pic would be great. My friend thought it would not be a problem, but any help is appreciated. The rope is connected to the pump? does it stay in the well? Guys on the forum sell the pumps. I welcome their input. What are the best sources for the poly? I have not seen 500' lengths at lowes or hd. I saw a pump guy drop a pump down a well and he taped the electrical wires to the pvc every 4-6 ft.. What tape do you use for that? Thank you.
    Kent
  4. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I've put and pulled a few well pumps by hand and I do not agree with the rope idea. If you drop it or it breaks or falls down the well, or hangs up going down or later as you pull the pump, you run the high risk of not getting the pump out.

    You don't need a rope to put the pump down the well.

    You tape with waterproof electrical tape. You get it and the PE pipe and the extended length insert/barbed fittings and SS hose clamps at any pump or most plumbing supply houses. No torque arrestors or extra check valves.

    You should only use the plumber if he is experienced in this, and if he needs an electrician to make the power cable connections, he isn't experienced. If he needs the electrician to run the power from the panel to the switch fine, but he should be able to run and connect the cable from the switch to the pump on his own, that includes the waterproof splices to the pump's pigtails and taping them up and out of the way so they don't hang up or are able to scuff as the pump turns on. It also includes how much slack in the cable at the well.

    A pump guy or driller may be a much better choice...
  5. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    We do lot's of pumps a year so we bought an Up Z Dazy. best thing since sliced bread. I would never leave the torque arrestor off. I've seen a couple 2 hp pumps twist the pipe right off.
  6. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    A better choice would have been the Pul-A-Pump. They allow one man operation and are much easier to handle and operate. I had one with a few extras and could take it off the truck and to the well and on the casing alone. And the tracks are much better than the 3 wheels design.

    I've had many arrestors hang up and be all torn up by the time I got them out. And unless they are adjusted just right, they don't prevent pump rotation. And how do you do that in a rock bore?
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