Pull Pump with Iron pipe at 370ft for less than $400?

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by etechjc, May 25, 2007.

  1. etechjc

    etechjc New Member

    Messages:
    13
    I have a submersible 1.5 horse pump at 370ft deep connected to steel pipe, No pitless adaptor. I beleive I have an open wire down in the well and I think that the ancient wire should be replaced anyway.

    The weigh in of pump with pipe and water is calculated I beleive at around 800 to 1000 pounds.

    This leads me to a couple of questions for you gurus.

    The best qoute I have gotten to pull the pump was $400, Mind you this is Just to pull the pump and nothing else. I don't know if there is a machine I look to rent or maybe I could possibly build a rig of sorts to pull it? Its just that at this moment in time $400 is alot for me. One thing I was considering was possibly using a couple of engine puller rigs to slowly pull the pump out, But then I would have no way of supporting all that pipe as it came up.

    Second question, If I have them pull it, Can I have them replace the pipe with poly so I can pull it myself in the future if I have these issues, Or is that just to deep for polypipe or even worse yet am I underestimating the weight of poly?

    Any thoughts, ideas, etc... Are GREATLY appreciated.
    Last edited: May 25, 2007
  2. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The 370' with a 1.5 hp pump all full of water is too heavy for any pump pulling machine I know of, you need a pump/derrick truck. I've never heard of anyone renting consumers a pump pulling machine.

    The 370' is fine for 160 or 200 psi, I'd go 200, rated PE pipe and your 1.5 hp pump if the wet end isn't above say 15 gpm.

    You'll have to ask them if they want to hang around until you're ready to put the pump back in but.... if it were me, I'd have to charge for the time. You'd be better off letting me repair/replace whatever with my 'contract' price regardless how long it took me.

    The 370' on PE is too heavy for pulling by hand but a backhoe etc. might be rigged to do it if you can prevent the PE from sliding back down the well.
  3. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    It really depends on how resourceful you are, and how careful you can be.

    1. Build a tripod out of 21' lengths of 2" steel pipe, yeah I know you can't pull a 21' lenght of pipe with only what will turn out to be a 18' tripod.

    2. Hang a sturdy comealong from the top with a chain on the hook that you can wrap around the pipe and cinch it tight (if you don't know what I'm talking about, then $400 is cheap).

    3. Also hang another chain from the top that will allow you wrap around the drop pipe and cinch it so it doesn't slip because you are going to need to release the comealong chain to re-position it back down on the pipe so you can pull up the rest of that lenght.

    Some people would have you make a slotted piece of steel plate to set under each of the coupling as you pull the above the well head that will support the drop pipe, and that's probably a good idea, since that safety chain will get in the way of removing that lenght of pipe you pulled.

    This is going to take you all day, but it could be done.


    Rancher .oO (a lot of work to save $400)
  4. etechjc

    etechjc New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Why would I have them wait for me to put it back in? If I had them pull it, Replace the wire and the pipe, Clean the pump and put it back in, Itd be a little more, However 500-600lbs, I could easily figure a way to get that out.

    Also isn't PE pipe relativly flexible, Which would make it a little easier even.

    Rancher,
    Do you think 2" steel pipe at that length would hold the 900-1000lbs of weight on a direct downward force? I guess I could weld the top together. Other than that, I may give it a try.

    However, I seriously think I may do the ladder and have the pipe replaced with the wire. Then I could use my backhoe or a block and tackle setup.

    And, Yes its alot to save $400, However its not just $400, It is $400 + Wire + Labor of replacing the wire and checking out pump + whatever else they can throw in, And on top of that, We have maybe 6 companies in a 60 mile radius capable of pulling it, None who are to full of integrity. Infact One guy I called yesterday in the middle of the day was Drunk, I mean slurring his words, Lose his mindset, sounding like he was about to pass out drunk. Another guy we called told us $65 just to come out and find out why we are having issues, He came out, Clamped an amp meter on the pump and said "Your running dry, Theres nothing I can do, you have to drill a new well.", He then proceeded to charge me $110 for 15 minutes of labor and only after I threatened to call BBB amongst other people did he agree to the original $65.
    The last company, Seems alright so far, However other than discussing with them what was going on, I havent had to much dealing with them.
    Now add to that of all of these companies, Not ONE, Thats right, NOT ONE! accepts anything other than cash or check, Now let me ask you, If I have to have a new well drilled or a pump replaced, Where am I supposed to come up with a $1400+ in cash? I am not like these people, My bussiness has integrity and I do not overcharge people, Therefore I do not have thousands in cash readily laying about for my use.
    Last edited: May 25, 2007
  5. enriquehobart

    enriquehobart Plumber

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    MD
    I would go with the truck rig pulling the whole shooting match out. Then I would replace the steel pipe with the PE.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but, I believe that once you have the 1.5 and PE you would be able to pull it all out for maintenance with a pump pulling wheel which is directly attached to the top of the well casing and is secured by tightening a bolt.

    PE can be kinked if it is bent too severely when it is laid out during or after pull.

    You have a business of your own with integrity...then you might want to think about charging more for your services as I believe any man in business for himself should be able to afford a Plumbing service to come out and provide the entire needed service to a well pump.

    These plumbing businesses are not really on the ball either. They should allow clients to use credit cards. In some cases businesses finance clients so that they can afford the job. I think that this is a good business practice as long as the business is being fair about it.
  6. etechjc

    etechjc New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Do you know where I can get one of these pump pulling wheels, If not by looking around I think I can see how I would be able to build one.

    Correct me if Im wrong, I definitaly need a torque arrestor on the pump for PE pipe.

    Actually I do have the money, Just don't have the cash. Most everything I have/get from the business goes into my various investments or back in to the business. I actually keep very little in liquid assets around, And pulling out anything to quickly usually cost me a little $omething, $omething extra.

    The reason for this is 98% of the bussiness will take CC... The area I live in is at most mid-range income, and a good pecentage of the people in this area have city water. In fact I am the only one in probably a 10 mile radius that actually still has a well, And no, to me its not even close to an option to goto city water, At least not until Im to old and/or dumb to not be able to handle a well my self. The city water around here is horrible in soooo many ways.

    ***Edit****
    This is kinda off topic But I hate to start a new topic for this, But does anyone know where I can pickup a inflateble well casing plug?

  7. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    You know some people think us well guys are in the business to come out to your house to tell you what your problem is,how to fix the problem,and do it all for free. If you say its not the cash and that you have credit,then get yourself a cash advance and get your well repaired. Some people might try to get you to believe that this is something you can do yourself but not knowing who you are or your mechanical capabilities are, i wouldn't give you any advice on how to pull this pump that if not done right,can cost you a lot more money than 400.00,and worst than that can get someone hurt or killed. I have pulled pumps set on steel pipe and if you dont know what you are doing, you will get yourself into some serious trouble. You are taking the wrong path and it would be wise for you to get up the money to have the pump removed and then maybe put your thoughts towards setting it back in the well on polly pipe yourself. Like gary said a pump pulling machine will not be able to remove this pump so forget the thought of trying to build one.

    SAM
  8. HandyAndy

    HandyAndy General Contractor, Farmer

    Messages:
    68
    Location:
    Haxtun, CO
    jsut my two cents,
    I would hire the well rig to pull it, and if you want to buy the wire and any repairs you think you need ahead of time, and then have him put it back down, I would have a new pump on hand jsut in case as well,
    believe me that $400 is cheap, unless you have a good winch and elevators and the proper dogs, and have some experience,
    on that deep of well that is a lot of weight and you can have problems in a hurry,

    I would not put that deep of well back in with poly pipe,
    I would use steel pipe,

    my wells are about 280' and that is a lot of weight, and when full of water, yes I pull my own wells but I do have a windmill tower over both wells which I can use to set up on.

    If you drop the pipe, and many times fishing out a dropped pipe is very difficult, and depending on the how it is dropped, and the depth and how much of the string of the pipe is dropped, some times nearly impossible to pull out of the bottom of the well as it will usually bury it self deep down below the bottom of the casing.

    DO not try to Jerry rig up some mess to try to pull it, If you do decide to pull it your self, you will want at lest 25 foot tall mast, to pull 21' pipe and would suggest something taller yet, make it good and solid, if it fails you could easily kill your self or helpers, and leave your well messed up, since it is a submersible and you do try it your self, make sure you have the electrical wire placed in such a way if you do drop the pipe the wire will not catch any one and rip off a limb on its way down the well,

    http://www.deanbennett.com/pipe-tools.htm
    as you can see to get the equipment will cost you a lot more than the cost of hiring it pulled, and "RANCHER'S PIPE DOG LIFTER " is not suitable for your depth, it may bend and possibly crush the top pipes, and I would caution you on the "RANCHER'S PIPE HOLDER" at the top of the page for that depth as well, I have had pipe slip in it. I have used both and I don't trust them, either one of them.

    I use the "BAIL TYPE STEEL PIPE ELEVATORS" you normally need two of them. they are not cheap,
  9. etechjc

    etechjc New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Sammy,
    Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking well people and what they do, In fact I think a reputable well guy could be very handy to have on my phone book.

    I am just knocking the complete unproffesional behavior I have seen so far. Yes If I call you, It is your job to come out and tell me whats wrong, Not what you think is wrong. Yes it is your job to tell me what its going to take to fix it. If you qoute me $65 on the phone to do so, You better only charge me $65, Unless we come to another agreement mutually, An not just randomly pick a higher number just because you feel its worth it. No I don't expect you to do it for free, However I also don't expect you to try and gouge me just because you think you can get away with it.
    Cash advances cost money and intrest, It take juggling to avoid it. However It takes a person running a bussiness 10 minutes and a short application to be able to accept credit card with a fairly small overhead to do so, And from personal experienc I can tell you it is deifinatly worth it.
    Now I dont have tons on liquid assets laying around for me to easily access (Mind you, I never said impossible.),

    With that said I have decided to have someone to come in and pull it and replace it with PE, Just because I think you are correct in me not having the mechanical abilities and time. And I am going to have them put it back in. I just don't know who yet.

    My inquiry about a well pulling machine was actually in regards to AFTER
    all has been said and done, and the PE has been put in, And if I need to maintance it for some reason.

    My thought towards building one for PE pipe was more or less, A large wheel, Like the ones I use when I have to lay utility line (About 5 ft in diameter in the center.), Connected to a motor via a Ratioed gear.

    Once I get the PE pipe connected to the wheel I just slowly throttle it in to role up the pipe.

  10. Raucina

    Raucina Previous member

    Messages:
    515
    Did anyone notice that the guy said he had a backhoe? Well, hello, a backhoe is a nice crane if the operator has any experience. He does not need any tripod or chain or drunken well plumber to pull his pipe if he has perseverence and determination and common sense in him. I pulled more than a few 400 to 800 foot pipe strings with a backhoe or excavator in just a few hours. How? 2 pieces of 4x4 or 5x5 oak or maple blocks about 12" long. Drill a hole through the center just about .125" - .0625" undersize of pipe OD. Now split this block through the middle of the pipe hole on a bandsaw. Hinge one end so this can secure the pipe with just one clamp on the opposite end.
    chain on this block or better to insert eye hooks and a "Y" for a close to center pull line [chain and hook is on backhoe arm] Lift as much as possible, clamp second assembly, release first or cut pipe if to be abandoned, and repeat until the pump is in your hand. Dont laugh about the wood - maple and oak take a grip on the pipe that exceeds any thing else if the hole size is correct, and at the worst a slip will stop at the coupler or any sort of safety clamp one might choose to apply above the clamp block.
    Proviso: Do not try this unless you have been declared very handy by mom, neighbors, wife and friends. You might get hurt.

    Cost: backhoe fuel: 6$ handy friend for 3 hours: 30$ clamp blocks from local cabinet shop- your wood - 40$ Hacksaw blade or gas for torch - 10$ -White wine- 12$ hard hat-6$ .... pretty fair savings over 400$
  11. etechjc

    etechjc New Member

    Messages:
    13
    I thought about using the backhoe to pull it, My only worry is that Im not sure about clamping method, Now the well is in the middle of a 40 acre field, So I wouldn't be worried about it hitting anything, But I am worried about a freind getting hurt and my friends are more important to me than any $400.

    I should mention, I don't know what the lifting weight is of the arm, Althoug I am pretty sure it is more than the 1000 lbs. Its a John Deere 310D, If anyone knows.
    Last edited: May 25, 2007
  12. Raucina

    Raucina Previous member

    Messages:
    515
    How about a enemy that has a value of less than 200$ ? JUST KIDDING. If in doubt, hire it out. But in a pinch, you CAN do it, even alone.
  13. etechjc

    etechjc New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Thats not a bad idea :D

    Thanks for the suggestion though, However this time I have decided to follow everyones advice and hire it out.

    Really me following good advice is a pretty rare thing, Just ask my wife.:D
  14. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Etech,
    you made a wise decision. I didnt mean to be so stearn but i cant stand to see someone attempt something that could turn ugly. I think that some people here need to be careful about the advice that they give people because it can get someone hurt or killed.

    SAM
  15. etechjc

    etechjc New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Sammy,
    I dont mean to talk so bad about well people, Like I said I dont have anything against them in general, Except that some people just seem to invest in a truck and call them selfs well people. The guy that I finally got has been in the bussiness for over 40 years, and since cash is such a pain for me we have worked out a solution where he is going to come do the work and I am going to have some of my people do some electrical work for him and get a $600 break.

    The total including the electrical work I am going to have done for him is going to come to $900 if everything is ok with the pump like I suspect.
    Thats for pulling and putting back in, replacement polypipe, replacement wire, and inspect and clean the pump and as a side bonuse hes going to hook up my coyote unit for me. Makes my out of pocket $300 for everything.
  16. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Sounds good and i hope everything works out for you. Its nice to get into a situation where you can trade off work.

    SAM
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