pside kick csv

[dirk_411]

Hello. Have read lots about the pside kick. Like what I hear. I think I spoke to valveman's kid today on the phone. Anyways a little background. my drilled well is 130ft, water 30 ft from surface no matter what. pump set at 100ft mark. I measured around 8gpm. water is hard and has soluable iron. currently have a culligan iron filter and water softener, seems to work quite well about 5 years old. my pressure tank is almost 3ft tall (30 gallons?) and is the age of the house 1996. I'm currently planning to retro fit my entire 1400sqft bungalow to a manifold home run system. all lines off the manifolds will be 1/2". my copper manifolds are 2" trunks with 10 half inch ports. outlet of manifold will be reduced to 3/4" and have a blow out valve. I was planning on running 1" right from the water entry to my treatment and from there to my manifolds. as for demand, 2 adults and to infants. I was doing the manifold home run set up so we could run the dishwasher, laundry, water lawn and have shower all at the same time. problem now is it really cuts down the pressure when running g multiple places. So while I do this I want to address my pressure system.

all that being said, does anyone have any feedback about what I'm doing but more importantly how the pside kick will work for me. I'd really like to hear from valveman

 

[Valveman]

If the water stays at the 30' mark no matter what, the well is capable of supplying more than 8 GPM. An 8 GPM pump is not large enough to run all those things at the same time. You need to add up the flow from each outlet that you want to use at the same time, and see how many GPM's you really need. The CSV1A in the Pside-Kick kit will control a pump up to a 25 GPM, and still only needs a 4.5 gallon size tank. When you are using 3 GPM, the CSV turns the pump into a 3 GPM pump. When you use 12 or 20 GPM, the CSV turns the pump into a 12 or 20 GPM pump. So even if you put in a 25 GPM pump, the CSV will make it act like the size of pump you need at any given time.

The problem without a CSV is that you will need a large pressure tank, and the pump will still cycle on and off when you are using small flow rates. The constant pressure from the CSV will make the pressure in the house and sprinklers much stronger, and will save the pump from a countless number of cycles.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[dirk_411]

If the water stays at the 30' mark no matter what, the well is capable of supplying more than 8 GPM. An 8 GPM pump is not large enough to run all those things at the same time. You need to add up the flow from each outlet that you want to use at the same time, and see how many GPM's you really need. The CSV1A in the Pside-Kick kit will control a pump up to a 25 GPM, and still only needs a 4.5 gallon size tank. When you are using 3 GPM, the CSV turns the pump into a 3 GPM pump. When you use 12 or 20 GPM, the CSV turns the pump into a 12 or 20 GPM pump. So even if you put in a 25 GPM pump, the CSV will make it act like the size of pump you need at any given time.

The problem without a CSV is that you will need a large pressure tank, and the pump will still cycle on and off when you are using small flow rates. The constant pressure from the CSV will make the pressure in the house and sprinklers much stronger, and will save the pump from a countless number of cycles.

Ok. So sounds the pside kick is a lock.

Question then becomes, do you have a method that is easy and effective to figure out my gpm at home?

next, so my shower head says 2.5gpm max. Not sure what an energy efficient dishwasher and wash machine use per minute? I should have not included watering the lawn, as that was something I possibly could do. so that was misleading. realistically a shower, dishwasher, wash machine and maybe the kitchen sink a little bit for dishes. or run 2 showers at once maybe. that would be more realistic. that's why I want the manifold home run system.

valveman, when I order the pside kick from you guys I have a couple questions. I see people mentioning stainless, brass or poly? what's that about?

with my soluable iron and I don't know any ppm or anything but basically how it looks is if I blow raw water out at the pressure tank now it's looks like we'll scale or rust flake in the water. but when you take and smear one of those pieces it's soft like mud. when your finger dries after you smear it your finger feels dried out. or the other observation I have is if you dry it, it turns hard like well scale. that being said could I put a russco spin down 19" sediment trapper with an adequately size stainless mesh filter cage in ahead of the pside kick to save some of that junk getting to the CSV? or bad idea? as it stands now my pressure tank gets the full brunt

 

[Valveman]

A 1/2HP, 10 GPM would probably do everything you need. But I would use a 3/4HP, 10 GPM just in case I wanted to go crazy and use everything at once. The Pside-Kick is all Stainless, but you can connect to PVC, copper, Pex, whatever you have. And you can put the filter before the Pside-Kick as long as it is rated for the 125 PSI that the 3/4HP will deliver. If it is rated for less, put it downstream of the CSV1A and it will only see the 40/60. The CSV1A can handle a lot of crud and can be taken apart and cleaned if needed.

 

[dirk_411]

thanks btw. So the russcos I have are max 150 psi. I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong but I just don't think my 1/2hp pump will have an issue delivering. but noted.

Last thing I need to touch on is power outages. I read lots of your other posts about this. but let's bring me up to speed now before I purchase eh.. So I have a honda 5500watt genny. powe're outages we tend to conserve water. So your more likely to run water for short frequent periods. now if it's prolonged we will shower or bath kids. all considered I thought and understood that my pump will draw less amperage with the CSV1A?

 

[Valveman]

If the water level stays at 30-50 feet, the 1/2HP is plenty. If the water level pulls down you will wish you had a 3/4HP. I just always figure on the worst case scenario and then I am covered for everything. The beauty of the CSV is that you can install as large a pump as you think you may need, and the CSV will make it work like a small pump when small water is all you are using.

Yes the amperage is lower when using a CSV. And if you use the small tank and set the CSV at the cut in pressure, it also helps reduce startup amperage. Just run the generator when the power is off and showers are needed. Then before you shut off the generator fill a few buckets for the little things water is needed for.

 

[Ballvalve]

Reduced cycles, sure. But I still cannot get but a barely perceptible to 1 amp drop in amps in any [and many] submersible pumps that I have closed the flow down to near shut off.

 

[dirk_411]

Reduced cycles, sure. But I still cannot get but a barely perceptible to 1 amp drop in amps in any [and many] submersible pumps that I have closed the flow down to near shut off.

So your saying no to lower amperage?

 

[Valveman]

There are a few pump like the 10 GPM Pentair that do not drop in amperage. But most drop at least 20-30%, and some drop 50% or so. Here are a couple of pump curves for ones that have a really good drop in amps. If you want a good drop in amps, you have to choose a pump that does that. Notice the 25S20-11 goes from 2.4HP load at 25 GPM to 0.6HP at 1 GPM. The 10S05-9 goes from 0.9HP at 11 GPM to 0.4HP at 1 GPM. Amps are directly related to horsepower.

 

[dirk_411]

ordered my pside kick yesterday. Have some other things to order before I put it in service. May be a couple months but I'm pretty excited

 

[PumpMd]

Reduced cycles, sure. But I still cannot get but a barely perceptible to 1 amp drop in amps in any [and many] submersible pumps that I have closed the flow down to near shut off.

That's all your going to get is .5 amps drop on plastic pumps and 1.0 amps drop on Stainless steel pump (Myers) but like you said " It takes you almost deadheading the pump to see it". I made two videos, one is a 1hp 10gpm Sta-Rite and the other is a 1hp 16gpm Grundfos. I will load them up when I got time later to show everyone.

 

[Valveman]

Here is the pump curve for the 16S10-10 Grundfos. The horsepower requirement drops from 1.4HP at 18 GPM to 0.6HP at 2 GPM. That should mean the amps would be at 9 when pumping 18 GPM, and will drop to about 4.5 amps when the flow is restricted to 1 GPM. The 10 GPM Sta-rite is not going to have much of an amp drop, but the Grundfos should drop by 50%.

 

[PumpMd]

I see Valveman said "Pentair Pumps won't drop much". I will let you choose which one to test then. Jacuzzi,Eagle, Goulds,Red Jacket,Winpump,Monarch,PumpCo, and Franklin Water Horse.

Grundfos coming soon

 

[Valveman]

That is the same thing I found on the 10 GPM Pentairs. But the 20-30 GPM Pentair pumps have a much better drop in amps like 20-30 %.

 

[PumpMd]

Your never going to drop more than what the Motor by itself draws without a pump unless blank?

 

[Valveman]

Your never going to drop more than what the Motor by itself draws without a pump unless blank?

That is a very good point. But the motor should pull less than half the full load amps. Do the same video test with just the motor by itself that was on that Grundfos pump.

 

[Valveman]

Here are a couple of videos I made of the amp drop from Grundfos pumps. These have 3 wire motors with control boxes, but that should not make much difference on the amp drop. This is the same 16S series that didn't show much of an amp drop from PumpMd video. So I don't know why the amps don't drop as good on the other video. Amp test on the motor only may find there is a problem with the motor.

 

[PumpMd]

Here are a couple of videos I made of the amp drop from Grundfos pumps. These have 3 wire motors with control boxes, but that should not make much difference on the amp drop. This is the same 16S series that didn't show much of an amp drop from PumpMd video. So I don't know why the amps don't drop as good on the other video. Amp test on the motor only may find there is a problem with the motor.

Did you test yours with a Grundfos motor or a Franklin motor?

 

[Valveman]

Both of those have Franklin motors.

 

[PumpMd]

The motor by itself pulled around 8.6 amps (2 wire). The motor by itself says 8.2 amps without a pump. I tested it again on a different motor (2 wire) and it was the same. I will test again on 3 wire motor.