Please check my 5810 SXT settings

[CaptainJK]

From learning from the good people on this forum, I bought an installed a softener this weekend with a 5810 SXT valve and a 13x54 Vortech tank. Can you double check my settings?

8 lbs/ft3 salt dose
BLFC = .25 gpm or .75 lb salt/min
Injector = #0 Red
DLFC = 4 gpm
Hardness = 20 gpg by Hach test, 24.5 gpg by NTL Labs (It will likely also increase a bit when I bring my neutralizer online)
No iron
2.5 ft3 of resin

DF:GAL
VT:5810
RF:dF2b
CT:Fd
C:60.0
H:20
RS:cr
DO:30
RT:2:00
B1:5
B2:4
BD:107
BF:27
RR:6
FM:t1.2
RE:OFF

Thanks very much!
John

 

[Bannerman]

Injector = #0 Red

Are you certain this is the injector actually installed? The Fleck manual specifies a #0 Red injector is appropriate for a 9" down-flow tank. The manual specifies the #3 Yellow injector is appropriate for a 13" d-f tank.

H:20

There is a conflict with the hardness amount measured. I would suggest using the NTL test result until your acid neutralizer is installed, at which point, the hardness will again need to be determined to modify the hardness setting accordingly. If the hardness setting is lower than the actual hardness being removed, then additional capacity will be consumed compared to the capacity to be regenerated.

8 lbs/ft3 salt dose

BLFC = .25 gpm or .75 lb salt/min

BF:24

As each gallon of water entering the brine tank will dissolve 3 lbs salt, your current 24 minute Brine Fill setting is too low.
8 lbs/ ft3 = 8 lbs X 2.5 ft3 = 20 lbs total salt needed per regeneration cycle.
24 minutes BF X 0.25 gpm BLFC = 6 gallons fill X 3 lbs = 18 lbs salt.
For 20 lbs, increase the BF setting to 26.7 minutes (or next higher number when rounding)

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Your settings all look good to me, except I might set H to 28 (24.5 plus high-hardness compensation).

 

[CaptainJK]

Are you certain this is the injector actually installed?

I will will at the injector itself to double check. Can you point me to the manual where the proper size is shown as it would be helpful to go back to my dealer. Also, as long as I set the BD setting based upon whatever injector I have, does it have a functional difference on the softening ability of the unit?

Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

Also, as long as I set the BD setting based upon whatever injector I have, does it have a functional difference on the softening ability of the unit?

Your #0 red injector is a little better for softening ability than #1 or #2, but it keeps the softener in bypass a little longer. You would normally be sleeping then anyway. Flushing a toilet a few times while in bypass is not a big deal at all.

I was initially going to say to be sure that the backwash on your calcite tank (if it backwashes) does not overlap the softener backwash and BD and RR times. But now I am not so sure that if they overlapped that would be bad. The norm is to not overlap.

FYI the softener is back in service during the BF.

 

[Bannerman]

Can you point me to the manual where the proper size is shown

Page 28
https://www.manualslib.com/products/Pentair-Fleck-5810-Sxt-10400709.html

While a longer BD time can be programmed to compensate for a slower injector flow rate, when the injector is drastically smaller, then the BD time can become excessive. While 1 smaller injector size can improve efficiently slightly, I anticipate there would be no benefit in using an injector that is 3 sizes smaller. With the BD setting at 107 minutes compared to a more common 60 minutes, then the entire regeneration cycle will be extended by 47 minutes.

Although the manual indicates a 0.5 gpm BLFC is appropriate for 12" - 16" tanks, as BF occurs after the valve has been returned to 'Service' mode, there will be no drawback in using a longer BF setting.

Although I see that you edited your original BF setting, the Edit was not indicated at the bottom right of the post, even as it was performed more than 5 minutes after the initial posting was uploaded.

 

[CaptainJK]

@Bannerman and @Reach4 thank you very much for your help. I now understand how these settings relate to the various regen times. Per the system sizing table Bannerman referenced above, I'm going to ask my vendor to provide a #3 Yellow injector and a 0.50 gpm BLFC. I will adjust BD and BF accordingly.

A bit disappointingly, it appears something else is wrong. Even after having the settings set properly and doing a full regen overnight, my Hach 5B results only went from showing a hardness of 20 gpg to 16 gpg. I'm going to start a new thread on this so the troubleshooting can be easily searched and found later.

Thanks again. This forum is an awesome resource.
John

 

[Reach4]

I'm going to ask my vendor to provide a #3 Yellow injector and a 0.50 gpm BLFC. I will adjust BD and BF accordingly.

I would not. The BLFC change doesn't do anything for you except make the brine selection more granular. Would you choose 13 minutes or 14 minute? The #3 injector would be an inferior choice.

 

[CaptainJK]

I would not. The BLFC change doesn't do anything for you except make the brine selection more granular. Would you choose 13 minutes or 14 minute? The #3 injector would be an inferior choice.

Understood. If the downside is only regen time, I will keep the BLFC and injector as they are. Given the fact that the regen happens in the middle of the night, the time doesn't matter to me. Thanks again, Reach4.

 

[Bannerman]

As it seems the valve was originally configured for a smaller capacity softener, it is possible that the injector was exchanged without the label being revised when the valve was installed on your 13" tank. Suggest verifying which injector is actually installed so as to program the BD setting accordingly.

 

[CaptainJK]

Thanks, Bannerman. I confirmed earlier today that the injector is indeed a red #0. I suspect that the valve was setup as a smaller tank valve from the factory and my reseller just left it that way.

 

[David Isom]

I will will at the injector itself to double check. Can you point me to the manual where the proper size is shown as it would be helpful to go back to my dealer. Also, as long as I set the BD setting based upon whatever injector I have, does it have a functional difference on the softening ability of the unit?

Thanks!

 

[ditttohead]

These charts are not really useful since they base the injector size on tank diameter rather than volume. This never made any sense to me. I have a complete tank/injector chart for both Clack and Fleck, maybe I will share it one day. Injectors should be based on tank volume and desired draw rate/efficiency. Slower brine draws are slightly more efficient, but certain obvious limits need to be adhered to. Even the DLFC chart is not that good since it does not accommodate nor even reference temperature compensation. We have just revised all of our calculations for backwash rates after doing an extensive research project on water conditions throughout the USA. Obviously the variable are extremely difficult to adjust for, but we have redone our charts erring on the side of caution. Again, something I may share soon.

 

[David Isom]

I

These charts are not really useful since they base the injector size on tank diameter rather than volume. This never made any sense to me. I have a complete tank/injector chart for both Clack and Fleck, maybe I will share it one day. Injectors should be based on tank volume and desired draw rate/efficiency. Slower brine draws are slightly more efficient, but certain obvious limits need to be adhered to. Even the DLFC chart is not that good since it does not accommodate nor even reference temperature compensation. We have just revised all of our calculations for backwash rates after doing an extensive research project on water conditions throughout the USA. Obviously the variable are extremely difficult to adjust for, but we have redone our charts erring on the side of caution. Again, something I may share soon.

Hi, I must say I thought it was a little simplistic it’s I guess if they don’t provide a thing else what can you do ? I would be very interested in the charts it you would be prepared to share them with me . David