P trap vs S Trap

[Shacko]

Rich, they even drive around looking for people that do not have a permit doing repairs that requires one. Back when I was younger and less knowable, I went to a job site to dig up a sewer and make a repair. Soon as the spade hit the soil a car pulls up and the code enforcement officer asked me where is my permit, I did not have one so he put a stop work order on the site. I went to the village hall to get he permit, I had to pay a $1000 fine plus the $35.00 for the permit. needless to say I lost money on that job.

Where I worked for years you only had to tell the inspector it was a emergency and you didn't need a permit until you seen what the prob. was. They also can't enter the property without a warrant; but they can shut you down if you didn't have your license number on the side of you truck.

 

[TedL]

The part of Ron's incident I don't understand is the timing. I understand needing a permit to touch the pipe, but to dig the hole? I didn't think that was plumbing, anymore than driving the truck to the location is. If the HO tried to dig the ditch himself, would he have been cited for plumbing w/o a license?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Trainz]

OK I let you slide this time. I was in the home cheapo today to pick up a large screw driver. While there I walk through the plumbing aisle and I seen a guy grabbing 4 AAV's. I walked up to him and introduced myself, then proceeded to tell him those are not allowed by the Illinois Plumbing Code. He thanked me kindly for pointing that out and then said loudly "F*** the code its my home I will do what I want." Just happens there was a state plumbing inspector in the aisle over. He came over to me as the guy walked away introduced himself and had me point out the guy purchasing the AAV's. The inspector then introduced himself to the home owner, and they both ended up leaving with each other.

Ahh good ole Karma, she can turn and bite you, you know where.

Rich, they even drive around looking for people that do not have a permit doing repairs that requires one. Back when I was younger and less knowable, I went to a job site to dig up a sewer and make a repair. Soon as the spade hit the soil a car pulls up and the code enforcement officer asked me where is my permit, I did not have one so he put a stop work order on the site. I went to the village hall to get he permit, I had to pay a $1000 fine plus the $35.00 for the permit. needless to say I lost money on that job.

I came here from google search looking for information about traps and AAVs (and will start a new thread with my question)

Anyway... I am going to call BS here. While it is wonderful to get skilled advice from pros in the trade, the over-the-top rhetoric gets kind of old.

First of all, an inspector has no jurisdiction in Home Depot (or any other place that is not a worksite in his jurisdiction) to demand anything of anybody.

Without a warrant, the zoning/code officer can not enter your home because he saw you purchase building supplies, no matter what type of building supplies you purchase.

Secondly, in many states, you do not have to be licensed in a trade to practice in that trade in a DIY manner. In many states, cities and towns, it is perfectly legel to DIY electrical, plumbing, masonry, framing and other skilled crafts WITHOUT a license. The work may or may not require a permit and inspections.


Lastly, as mentioned above:

The part of Ron's incident I don't understand is the timing. I understand needing a permit to touch the pipe, but to dig the hole? I didn't think that was plumbing, anymore than driving the truck to the location is. If the HO tried to dig the ditch himself, would he have been cited for plumbing w/o a license?

Sure you don't understand it, because it makes no sense.

Ron... honestly, you can make your point and help people do things right without making up silly stories... Not all DIYers are fools.

 

[Terry]

In Washington State, they can take your work van, with all the tools, if your are caught working without a license.

It's just how it is.

That doesn't apply to the homeowner, but it does apply to handymen that charge for their work.

Any advertising, including the vans and trucks must include the license number.
For a general contractor, you have to be bonded and insured.
The same applies if you are a plumbing contractor or an electrical contractor.

 

[NHmaster]

When S-traps were installed in older houses here, the pipe size was increased on the horizontal run back to the stack. If the pipe size was increased, it would then supposedly never be more that 1/2 full, allowing the upper half of the pipe to act as the vent.

This thinking still applies here, as a vent is not required by our code if the pipe size and length back to the main stack are within what the code allows.

Here is a classic example if misunderstanding the code and further more, misunderstanding general plumbing principals. By definition a S trap discharges vertically. Whether or not it discharges into a 1/2 full pipe or not makes no difference, the trap can and will still siphon. I fact, you can dump it on the ground and it will siphon.

 

[Trainz]

In Washington State, they can take your work van, with all the tools, if your are caught working without a license.

It's just how it is.

That doesn't apply to the homeowner, but it does apply to handymen that charge for their work.

Any advertising, including the vans and trucks must include the license number.
For a general contractor, you have to be bonded and insured.
The same applies if you are a plumbing contractor or an electrical contractor.

Certainly! I don't think anybody would argue with that reality and I am sure there are plenty of true stories that would knock folks out of their chairs. Fly by night contractors are a dime a dozen and people get ripped off by them every day. On the other hand, inspectors confronting patrons/homeowners at Home Depot... or the plumbing contractor being handed a plumbing fine for putting a shovel in the ground without a plumbing permit...Well that is silly and makes the poster look silly, no matter how experienced and knowledgable he is.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Here is a classic example if misunderstanding the code and further more, misunderstanding general plumbing principals. By definition a S trap discharges vertically. Whether or not it discharges into a 1/2 full pipe or not makes no difference, the trap can and will still siphon. I fact, you can dump it on the ground and it will siphon.

Basic physics dictate most of the plumbing codes, but can somebody explain to me why crown vents are not allowed with an s-trap. The would admit air to the trap and break the siphon. What am I missing?

 

[NHmaster]

Because past experience shows that the crown can and will often get clogged with crap and then the vent becomes ineffective. Crown vented traps, along with bell traps and a myriad of mechanical traps were very common at the turn of the century. Over the years the short comings became apparent and most codes have banned their use. There are some exceptions here and there. In Maine for instance, up until a couple years ago, drum traps were mandated under lavs.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Because past experience shows that the crown can and will often get clogged with crap and then the vent becomes ineffective. Crown vented traps, along with bell traps and a myriad of mechanical traps were very common at the turn of the century. Over the years the short comings became apparent and most codes have banned their use. There are some exceptions here and there. In Maine for instance, up until a couple years ago, drum traps were mandated under lavs.

Makes sense. When I remodeled the bathroom, I found a drum trap under the pink cast iron tub.... Needless to say, neither it or the pink tub are still in place

 

[hj]

permit

Here, the permit would cost double if the inspector stops the job because you do not have one.