No tax credit for tank HWH?

Discussion in 'Water Heater Forum, Tanks' started by larryleveen, Jun 7, 2009.

  1. larryleveen

    larryleveen New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    WA
    It appears as though there are no tax credits available for high efficiency tank HWHs:

    http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_tax_credits#c4

    "Water Heaters Gas, Oil, Propane Water Heater Energy Factor >= 0.82
    or a thermal efficiency of at least 90%. 30% of cost, up to $1,5002

    All ENERGY STAR gas tankless water heaters will qualify.

    There are currently no ENERGY STAR qualified gas storage tank or gas condensing water heaters that qualify."

    Humph! Am I mistaken?
  2. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Right now there is no tank water heater ( gas ) which comes close to the 0.82 energy factor needed for rebates. Things like the standing pilot and convection losses up the flue prevent that. Kind of like there will be no energy star stoves or clothes dryers. They are designed to do one thing...make things get hot, and you can't cut back much on that, unless you want raw chicken and wet clothes!

    At some point, someone will offer a residential heater with fancier heat exchangers, flue dampers, and whatever else it takes to get the numbers up. But they will cost a lot!

    Even a power vent today does not come close.

    I am not a fan of tankless. Some love it. In my experience overseas, tankless were located right at the scene of the crime so to speak....a small unit literally IN the bathtub, right next to the washing machine , etc. This works well. We will probably see more of that in new construction going forward. As a retrofit, I see Clint Eastwood syndrome..." you gots to know the limitations!"
  3. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Messages:
    1,706
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
  4. too much money

    No offence here, but you would have to be nuts to put in either of the products you have listed....

    I would not install that Smith water heater with in anyones home...


    as far as the normal units that give you a rebate,
    in this area you get a 100 dollar rebate on the above .62 units...

    with the rheem pro energy saving unit
    you save a whopping 25 dollars a year

  5. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    I call technical foul! What is the price of those 100,00 + BTU commercial models!!!
  6. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Messages:
    2,777
    Location:
    USA
    I don't care. I want a "hand hole cleanout" on my BW.
  7. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Messages:
    1,706
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    The A O Smith units are residential units.
  8. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego

    Yes, I posted a question or comment about those also, and I think I forgot to click "submit"!

    The comment was....they seemed to meet the spec, so does anyone know why they would not be eligible for the tax credits??
  9. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Messages:
    1,706
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    They are eligible for the tax credits was my point. Even their website will tell you they meet the standards for the tax credits.
  10. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Messages:
    1,706
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Oh come on Master Plumber Mark. These units are not as bad as the other power vents they made. They took the original state design in this case and changed the colors to yellow and tagged it as an A O Smith.

    On the note of you hating A O Smith, I had a home owner hire me to install a sears Kenmore water heater for him. It was dead on like the State/ AO Smith atmospheric vent unit. I warned him to keep that room good and clean. Or he will have issues with the pilot.
  11. not as bad , huh???


    the confidence you project when you say that their new units are "not as bad" as their older versions..
    fills me with something, but I am not sure what....



    they sort of look like an ice cream machine, with the yellow cone on top... they really dont give me a good feeling

    I will stick with bradford white...
  12. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Messages:
    1,706
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    One of these days I need to take you out for a beer... or maybe an Ice Cream.. lol
  13. I like the beer idea, Guinnes Stout Draft


    Beer and ice cream, I would rather have a
    Guinnes Stout draught....they sort of have an ice cream taste to them....


    as far as that Sears water heater, we are all going to have to be carrying a lot more repair parts ....

    especially when they start to clog up from underneath...



    [​IMG] I posted this Smith 09 dog that I jsut installed last week,,,, it actually has less and a crappier air intake than their original model back in 03...

    I guess you have to look on the bright side,,,,

    if they are too damn stupid to make a decent heater
    no matter how much you beg them too.

    its best to just have that
    beer and go with the flow.....

    Really its all good job security ......

  14. 99k

    99k Radon Contractor and Water Treatment

    Messages:
    460
    Location:
    Fairfield Co.,Connecticut
    How are you suppose to get at that once it is installed? That is criminal.
  15. you dont


    what I have been doing is attempting to clean it
    with a wet vak nozzel, and a high compression
    hose.... you cant really see what you are doing

    usually if the unit is still under the tank warranty,
    I will give them a price to simply change the heater under warranty.....
    its 100% better than messing with this junk,

    the customer gets a brand new new heater.......

    I get about $375-450 for my time....(job security)


    and A.O. Smith gets what they deserve for
    makeing such a piece of junk in the first place.....
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2009
  16. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Messages:
    1,706
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I have replaced Rheem, AO Smith, and Bradford Whites under warranty due to the fine mesh screen clogged beyond my ability to clean them out enough. The whole design no matter who makes it is prone to clogging. The homes I run into this the most are where they have a small utility room with the furnace, washer and dryer and the water heater all in the same room. So the dryer lint is the culprit. They should design a filter that needs to be changed every 3 months just like on a forced air heater.
  17. sixlashes

    sixlashes Plumber in Previous Life

    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    Pensacola. FL
    I don't remember exactly where I found it while researching this very issue, but the reason none of the units you mentioned are not "energy star" and eligible for the credit is they must be 70,000 Btus or below.

    If you want the reference, I can look in my browser history to find it. It was on one of the gov'ment sites.

    The whole thing stinks, because independent testing I read documents the condensing tank units are more efficient than the non-condensing tankless units. Of course the tankless units exceed the 70k Btu limit. I smell politics over substance. But then, I am a cynic. :D
  18. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Messages:
    1,706
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
  19. sixlashes

    sixlashes Plumber in Previous Life

    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    Pensacola. FL
    Ron, that page at AO Smith is new. I didn't see it last week when I was looking this stuff up. I rechecked the energystar.gov site again and they still do not list the AO Smith or Bradford models as qualifying for the tax credit. I am not discrediting what you have pointed out, but the lack of info from the government on their own program. I can see models being missing from the list, but the criteria they give contradicts what the manufacturers are putting out. As usual, clear as mud.

    Here is what I was going by:

    http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_tax_credits#c4

    and linked to:

    http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=water_heat.pr_crit_water_heaters
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2009
  20. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Messages:
    1,706
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I installed one of the AO smith units already and the person that had me do it already claimed their tax credit. Government is just slow to update their site.
Similar Threads: credit tank
Forum Title Date
Water Heater Forum, Tanks Expansion Tank Question - also a water pressure question afterthought! Aug 8, 2014
Water Heater Forum, Tanks Gas water tank install Aug 1, 2014
Water Heater Forum, Tanks Corrosion on bottom of tank near flue pipe? Jul 23, 2014
Water Heater Forum, Tanks Offcenter vent on gas water heater tank Jun 10, 2014
Water Heater Forum, Tanks two water heaters, new whole house filter, max 90 psi, can I use one Expansion tank? Jun 10, 2014

Share This Page