No flange at all?

[jweaver]

When I removed the toilet for my garden level bathroom remodel, I noticed that something wasn't right with the waste pipe, but I decided to wait until I was ready to install the new toilet to address it. Now I'm ready to address it, and I'm afraid I may have to reset some of my tile (no problem since I have plenty extra).

So here's my dilema: There appears to be not flange at all. I noticed the old toilet just had what appears to be a tapered rubber gasket and the bolts to hold the toilet down were put right into the concrete pour. (of course they broke off )

Anyway the tile I layed is 3/8" ceramic and I was hoping I could simply place a new flange into the waste pipe and then bolt the flange down to the concrete after spacing up with more tile close to the pipe.

I'm also a bit concerned about the condition of the waste pipe, it looks really rough. I'd like to address any issues now since I plan on owning this house for another 7-10 years and I don't like doing things twice.

Here are some pictures so you can see what I'm looking at.

So....what are my options here?


Thanks for any tips or advice

 

[Redwood]

Is that 3" or 4" cast iron?
If so break out the cement surrounding the pipe, take the broken flange off, and install one of these Oatey #165 cast iron flanges on top of the finished floor height. Pour Hyraulic cement to make the floor flush and fill in where you broke out the cement. Screw it down secure with Tapcon screws.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[jweaver]

It's 4"

So we're assuming that there's a flange, but that it's covered in concrete

I saw that fitting at Lowes today. I almost got it, but figured I'd do some searching online today.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[jweaver]

What's the best way to prevent concrete chips from getting into the pipe?

 

[Redwood]

You could either stuff a rag in the pipe or, a 4" test plug. (expanding rubber plug with a wing nut to tighten.)

 

[Verdeboy]

1. Cold chisel out those old bolts or cut them off.

2. Use floor tile or floor leveler to even out the height.

3. Place one of these expander flanges into the cast-iron drain pipe and screw it down with tap-cons. The rubber gasket expands to form a water-tight seal with the cast iron.

4. Set the toilet.

 

[Redwood]

Now Verde Boy that's one beauty of a PVC flange there...
Do you really use those?
I mean would you use it in your own house...
The next one of those I use will be the first one!
Sometimes fast and easy just isn't right!

 

[jweaver]

Why would it matter if the seal is on the inside or outside of the pipe? As long as it seals??

 

[Redwood]

What matters is the useless all PVC flange.
A sure way to have more work in the future.
I like to do it right the first time...
Call me lazy!

 

[Jadnashua]

Plus, it's a lot easier to make a good seal if the pipe is not all corroded like yours is. Narrowing the pipe is marginally acceptable on a 4" pipe, but not good at all on a 3" pipe.

 

[Redwood]

Yep, That too!

 

[jweaver]

Thanks for the tips redwood. The projects coming along nicely thanks to your advice.

 

[Verdeboy]

Now Verde Boy that's one beauty of a PVC flange there...
Do you really use those?
I mean would you use it in your own house...
The next one of those I use will be the first one!
Sometimes fast and easy just isn't right!

The thread-starter wanted to know what his options were. This flange was developed for his exact situation, so he wouldn't have to tear up the floor. And, yes, I would use it in my house until I replaced all the old CI piping.

Here is the product description:
"PVC replacement flange that easily installs with no tools and without tearing up the existing floor. Designed to replace broken cast-iron flanges with a gasket that expands to also fit service weight, no-hub, or extra heavyweight soil pipe. For 4" flanges."

 

[Redwood]

And that is why you are a handyman and not a plumber.

If it had a stainless steel ring it might have some redeeming qualities.

The floor needs very little torn up. infact just enough chipped out around the pipe to allow the flange to fit over the pipe.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

VERY and REDWOOD

Basically you are both right.... but I prefer the OATY
whenever possible...

I have torn up a floor and done that cast iron thing with the hydrolic cement before... ONLY becasue I had to because it was a lead riser stareing at me..

.

He really has got the perfect situation for that expander OATY flange.... their is a recess where the flange will sit down into the tile which makes it work even better

the flange wont be above the tile and make anything top-heavy or wobbley.......

That plastic expander flange is probably the way I would go first..with this fight...

Install the OATY flange , tighten it down, then
install your toilet....

then caulk the toilet down with some DAP and you should be good for 20 years or so

I keep one in my truck...and they have saved the day for me a good dozen times..
those Oaty expanders can get you out of some mean
mean situations, and if you get them down in there tight and do it properly ..

..I thinnk that they will last forever...or at least 20 years. .....whichever comes first...

 

[hj]

flange

That internal expanding rubber flange would work great in a NEW cast iron or plastic pipe. But have you seen how corroded his pipe is? The flange may not even slide into it, but if it does there is no way it will conform to all the hills and valleys caused by the corrosion and erosion.

 

[Verdeboy]

With all due respect, a NEW cast iron pipe would not need this sort of repair, so this type of flange must have been created for older CI pipes, which would have some corrosion.

If you are worried about the rubber gasket sealing the "hills and valleys," you could smoothe out the surface somewhat with a wire brush and wrap the gasket with putty tape. Bear in mind that if the seal isn't just perfect, you would never see a drop of water unless there was a major backup. Even a clogged toilet would not cause any water to leak out of an imperfect seal in that location.

And, Redwood, putting someone else down doesn't make you any smarter. You are acting as if that PVC flange is made out of cardboard and is gonna melt away in a few weeks. So, either Oatey is risking their reputation by making a piece of crap or are they just lying about its application?

 

[Redwood]

You are acting as if that PVC flange is made out of cardboard and is gonna melt away in a few weeks. So, either Oatey is risking their reputation by making a piece of crap or are they just lying about its application?

Yep, There is a lot of crap out there.

Usually called... Cheaper, Faster, Easier...

You just have to wade through the crap and grab onto the good stuff!

All plastic closet flanges will never make my list!
They are Junk! Plain and simple!

 

[hj]

flange

If you are worried about the rubber gasket sealing the "hills and valleys," you could smoothe out the surface somewhat with a wire brush and wrap the gasket with putty tape. Bear in mind that if the seal isn't just perfect, you would never see a drop of water unless there was a major backup. Even a clogged toilet would not cause any water to leak out of an imperfect seal in that location.

Handymen and DIYers who work on a "new" cast iron system would use a flange like that because they would not have a clue as to how to attach a proper flange the correct way. Smoothing out the surface "somewhat" is not making it smooth, and the gasket usually fits to closely to be able to add ANY KIND of tape to its surface. It would leak just as easily as a bad wax ring, since neither of them should be subjected to any pressure except during a backup.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

flange.... OATY

I dont know what everyone is so worried about...

they work fine on the old cast iron pipes for me...

you might have to smooth off any corrosioin inside the

pipe, and you mighthave to beat them down into the pipe sometimes...

just use a lot of pipe dope and it will slide down in that
nasty old hole ....no big del....


they work just fine ...day in and day out..


that is probably why they sell them.....

we have dozens and dozens of them out there over the

last decade.


HJ....we have actually put a partial wax ring between the old flange and
new OATY flange before..... just to seal it off better

like you mentioned it cant leak unless their is a sewer back up